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Oct 26, 2010
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This is a resource for everything biking in Bloomington IN. Everything and everybody is welcome- rides, results, blogs, opinion etc. Mail me content at sacconetom@gmail.com or if you want to often contribute, let me know.
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74 comments:
Please stop posting things that don't involve the Cutters.
Also, I think that BVN should have an "Ask GP" column. I have a few questions that I would like to present.
Number 1 - is PSIII dead forever or just getting one hell of a facelift? It has been down for maintenance for months!
Number 2 - what happened to PS5? I miss my weekly update!
Number 3 - Why didn't BVN have any coverage of the community race?
I can answer #1.
The activity on PS3 had devolved to the type of nonsense that GP has to deal with now. I took a more proactive stance on policing those who were less interested in having a relevant dialog than they were trying to piss people off. People complained about having to register as well as my “autocratic rule”. So I shut it down. GP’s blog format is more favorable to “drive by” posting, which appears to be annoying people who thought they could come here for information as opposed to the latest Cutter love/hate rant. I have no problem putting the board back on line.
Tom
In reference to the facebook page, the weekly updates will start again after Christmas break. The dialogue was good last year and stayed civil for the most part since everyone is public.
Cycling in Bloomington is so much more than just Little 5.
I really hope that more of the cycling and racing community will, over time, make our presence felt on BVN so as to dilute the endless bruhaha's over Cutters by past and present Little 5 riders.
I love Little 500 (its how I got my start in racing), however, its a long way from the final word in cycling in the Bloomington area.
Cheers,
Fred
"People complained about having to register as well as my “autocratic rule”. So I shut it down."
Tom, I figured it was shut down because only 1 person would post every 6 months and then no one would reply to the 1 post. You seemed to put up with the nonsense most of the time. Geraint's columns are good, but people only want to hate on Cutters and then have a bunch of riders and alumni defend back and next thing you know a thread about a local bike race turns into a 55 comment thread about Cutters, and 3 "Hanks" end up posting as Zack Lusk. Then Zack gets mad and tells everyone to shut up and ride their bikes and that someone is posting under his name.
Facebook seems to be the most sensible place to keep arguments because suddenly all the Cutter haters disappear when their name has to be attached to it. At least last year, there were teams out there backing up their words with great racing.
To answer #3- Brian Drummy was a man amongst boys...except the four boys that beat him in the MissNOut. A small group of highly tuned athletes took to the Little 500 track aka 'the beach' and battled it out in a 5lap Scratch (winner Paul Levy), MissNOut (Val Todorov) and Match Sprint (Val). The crowing moment was when noted trash-talker GP battled the aformentioned Drummy in the match sprint. Drummy led into turn 4 with GP making the mistake of sitting on the wheel instead of on the shoudler and couldn't come round by the line. Whether an 'Arnesen-style' hook occurred cannot be verified....
I don't care about idiots posting on this page- they'll soon get fed up of it. The occasions that decent dialogue has occured makes it worth while. BTW I can and do remove comments that I find inappropriate. I do wish people would make fun of a different team but I guess until they win Little 5 then the Cutters will remain in the firing line.
Anyway most of the items on this site are about other events...they just don't gain much commentary but I hope are gratefully received. Give me the Tour of Lombardy in the pouring rain over some Little 500 Fall series race.
Hi-
sorry to derail the BS with a serious question:
I want to race road with IUCC this spring (Cat 3), but I can't go to the meeting this thursday night.
So, who should I contact to make sure i get the up to date info and get plugged into the system, e-mail list, etc.??
Thanks----Jonathan Atwell
Hey Jonathan, email me at refullme@ indiana.edu
thanks, Rachel
Rachel has her hands full! IU has tons of road racing talent that never seems to work together. If Rachel can find away to put the L500 drama aside then IU could post some good results.
I agree w/ Fred.
And as a total outsider to that scene who didn't go to school here I look at L5 as a reason for frat guys to be "frat guys." Yawn.
I know some talent comes through the ranks of the race, but I honestly couldn't care less about it.
Yawn?
Apparently you've never slayed bitches...
Hah true that...GDI's suck. I wonder if kirkham's kid is riding a bicycle yet? All I know is if I were cutters I don't know how I could concentrate during the race. Each year the fans have booed louder and louder.
Young will go from sprinting against Sharp, Kiel and Ellis in the fall to sprinting against cavendish in the summer. How cutter of him.
PS Is feldman coming back for an 8th year? Word on the street is the cutters found a way around that rule too.
No response necessary from a cutter, a cutter fan, a bloomington townie or an inbred.
Frat
If you have never done Little 5, then there is hardly a reason to give it a second thought. If you have won the race, you would understand the significance of it. There are a lot of great options around Bloomington for cycling, but Little 5 remains the most fun option while you are eligible and brings the most noteriety to the riders. I look at some of the recent riders that have come from little 5, and cannot believe they never won the race but are ranked in the top 50-100 in the world for cyclocross. No one hardly talks about how cool that is except maybe a shout out from Geraint. I'm not saying one is better than another, but people know the names of the Cutters, but most (not all) do not care much about cyclocross or mountain biking and most average people probably don't remeber who those guys are. Little 500 has taken on a life of it's own, has been around for 60 years and has unbelievable tradition that brings people back every year from all around the country. You just can't say that about these other events. These other events around Bloomington are wonderful for personal growth and achievement but just do not have the same team aspect and camraderie that little 5 does.
I would venture to say most of us would have no clue who Eric Young is if he didn't ride Little 5. The people that race with him would know how badass he is, but unless you're winning the Tour de France, most average people just don't pay attention.
It's just two different ballgames. One is a team game and one is much more individualistic.
Now people that read this blog usually care about more things than just little 5, so don't jump down my throat about it. I'm just talking for the general IU population.
Hence, the reason Cutters dominate the talk on here every year. The movie has a lot to do with that i'd say but before the movie, D-Chi was getting hated on the same way with guys like Wayne and Dale Stetina coming from those teams.
Woj
Can anyone come up with a list of the best cyclists that never won Little 5 but went on to be accomplished cyclists in other areas? I'd be willing to bet that it's huge. And out of the people that did win, how many won more than once or was the finisher on that team?
That is what makes little 5 even more amazing. Great cyclists getting beat by some frat kids or cocky Cutter kids.
Ben Sharpe is the first one that comes to mind.
Sharp not Sharpe
Kevin vanes
Kurt Gensheimer
Rob Mackle
Vanes and Genshiemer? Give me a break!
Neff, Scherer, Knapp. Gensheimer was/is an extremely strong bike racer. More of MTB though.
How about best rider to Never Lose the race? Much shorter list.
Young, Wangerin, Feldman, Bill Brissman? Art Keith(1 race only)?? No one in history has won all 4 years right? Patches and Hank have a shot! Did Stetina lose once?
Sadly Hank is a senior, he only has a chance to become a three time winner. However he's surely in the conversation to be the one of the top ten three time winners!
Feldman was the ultimate Little 5 rider and more importantly team leader. Sure he had Young, who had a lot to learn, in 2009 but other than that turned a bunch of idoits that have never rode before into a decent little group of Little 5'ers. Nothing spectacular but knew what he had to work with, formulated training to fit needs of the team, and had an incredible race in 09 and 10. Without him I easily see The Cutters falling short in 2009 and 2010 but instead won both those races and is still a strong influence in the way their older riders approach the race of 2011. Hall of Fame in my book.
Yeah, it would be inetersting to see if Cutters could win this year with only 3 riders. It's been done before and I assume Young could ride 120 laps and still have gas for the sprint. Was he not that great last year to be able to do that? It's impressive that Clayton was the team's trainer considering his age and the fact that Cutters have so many alumni at their disposal with training experience. I wouldn't call them a bunch of idiots and it takes a village to raise a family of Cutters.
The only thing that might hold Clayton back was the perception that he was never the best rider on his own team and that he may not have been capable of winning a last lap sprint. I think the other things trump that though.
Feldman was no doubt a great rider. I think based on riding ability, no doubt he should be HOF. But how he acted towards other teams was pretty awful. I give him that he wanted to avoid them during practice, as any decent rider would want to avoid to low end of the L5 riders. One example explains why so many people dislike the Cutters.
Rookie Week 2 years ago, Feldman was on riders council and was announcing Rookie MNO with a megaphone. He proceeded to call a rider out who placed 3rd in his heat and tell him he sucked over the megaphone. The kid was not on his team but Clayton was right about the kid being awful. Still it was not his place to call a kid out for sucking especially when the kid was a rook in his first week of L5 track times.
This is only one instance but I'm sure there have been several other occasions when similar things have happened involving Cutters riders. (Anybody remember a Cutter getting arrested after winning the race?) Thats why everyone hates on the Cutters.. not because they are good, but because they act like no one else matters.
when you win every year you begin to get that kind of demeanor!
back to the old conversaton - neff. i would love to see what would have happened in 08 if he could have raced at full strength. he was unstoppable that year. cutters obviously were more unstoppable with hams, sash, clay, sigf (not young cuz he sucked on the bike supposedly). but bkb could have been interesting. i put bkb (with two great l5 and non l5'ers in knapp, neff) as one of those top duos in recent years.
Little 500 and IUCC are two seperate events. Sorry IUCC, but no one wants to work together. For no reason should anyone ever believe that the deep South vs the North, the Boilermakers versus Hoosiers, assholes vs freaks would ever team up to be on the same team for the greater good.
Why would I want to race against my enemies enemies friend? Seeing another win and beating a fellow IU teammate means more to most IU riders. See DePauw B's last year.
Slaying a Little 5 rivals girl gains more points in my book than getting IU good points.
Fortunately the more accomplished road riders at IU do not appear to share your L5centric view. In years past 'A' racers have worked as a team more so than the lower categories. The hope is (on the Mens side) that Dewart, Catanzaro, Kiel, Young, West, Shei et al can work well together to put IUs best foot forward.
Mens 'B' racing is usually the least team-tactically aware as many of those guys think they are superstars who will attack team-mates for personal glory. Hopefully this year there can be a better organization to even this category but we shall see- it might be like trying to herd cats.
Slay a Little 5 champion's girl....double points.
Frat
"Slay a Little 5 champion's girl...double points." What the hell does that even mean?
When anyone signs "Frat" you can't expect anything very intelligent. It is most likely not even a rider, just a troll.
IUCC might want to update their website too. Unless this is the new IUCC website.
according to urban dictionary - "slaying" -
Slaying is the act of having sex with little to no emotional attachment. Slaying for the joy of slaying. Also a male can hit the town with the intent of 'slaying bitches' which means he wants to smash up a stray and have no repercussions.
an example - "Natty B has an overdrawn moral bank account and is often found prowling the street looking for bitches who need 'slaying'."
or a better example "I was slaying this girl when my mom called on the phone."
slaying is basically to slay a slampiece.
What disintegration of any meaningful commentary on the handful of decent topics to discuss. Stupidity seems to be infinite, no? Is there any way to require some sort of login
(Google Account, etc) for comments? I'm not afraid to put my name behind what I post. Man up and stop signing your idiotic posts as "Frat," people.
From my four years of L5, Clayton was probably the most important rider I ever raced against. Eric Young is certainly the strongest individual, but Clayton brought something unique to the Cutters squad. His role in 2009 was perhaps the definition of a HOF-worthy performance. Considering the three rings and the relatively good spring series results as well, I think he deserves the honor.
Sure, there were altercations and other things that happened on the track between Clayton and other riders, but I think he needs to be HOF-ed by the merit of his cycling. Ignore the personal crap.
I can speak from experience that racing B's for IUCC was a total crapshoot. Rarely, if ever, was there solid teamwork and tactics. For ninety percent of riders, it was a move for personal glory... and when we did work together, our grasp of tactics was subpar at best. Sad, really, because there were a lot of strong riders there.
All the best to the As squad this year. I hope you guys can bring IU back to Road Nats with a strong presence. L5 is great, sure, but making a name for the school as a cycling powerhouse by being a perennial nationals contender has its own validity.
Hey, this is kind of off topic, but will t-shirts/sweat shirts be available for alumni or is the order being placed for just current riders?
Kaleb hit the bull’s-eye with this post.
The years IUCC does well are the years with strong leadership. In 2004 at Road and Track Nats and in 2006 at Track Nats, the passion that was displayed and that netted IU Silver medals, was no different than the passion dedicated Little 500 riders embody. The key was that those riders channeled that passion into a larger arena and achieved impressive results. There is no secret formula to having this happen every year. All it takes is wider view, one that focuses on representing I.U. And the major benefit is that participating in these races improves your cycling skills in very many ways, making your individual Little 500 programs more successful. Sounds like a win-win deal, huh?
I dont see it helping LIttle 500 teams?
Why?
Tom your lack of knowledge about the true nature of both IUCC and L5 is astounding considering your long history around both programs.
Your argument/statement in support of IUCC is sorely lacking in both supporting facts and consistency. You speak of leadership as the qualifying factor of IUCC success, then proceed to list the passion that Little Five generates as what is currently missing in the arena of IUCC. In a grand attempt to tie together your sweeping assessment of L5 and IUCC you decide that a wider focus than specifically L5 will yield improved cycing skills that you insuinate will then magically make your L5 program more successful.
I will put it bluntly because you haven't seemed to get the message, little five is not about you. The teams you coach become Tom's team, they were no longer Theta, AKAK, or Wing It; they all became Team Tom, to such a manic extent that you delusionally impliment a dangerous and desultory exchange that endangers everyone on the track.
The ignorace that is on display on this board is an extention of the white elephant of the Little Five Hundred. People do you have any idea why you do this little race? Have you ever considered your reasons or goals, or even how to achieve them?
I don't think IUSF has any goals for L5, they seem to be riding a wave of keeping the status quo in check.
Don't feel bad IUSF, most teams seem to be in the same holding pattern. They do the same things every year expecting different results.
Innovation is the heart of human development, the soul of true progress. The problem is only a few people are honestly willing to risk their egos to seek improvement.
I think very highly of everyone for going out there and putting themselves on the line seeking glory, or whatever it is that motivates them. Falsely I have in the past been accused of disrespecting or belittling other riders. This was never the case, I never looked to make others smaller, that never does anything to make me a bigger person.
It just breaks my heart that people can't be honest about how much they actually put into something, leaving them with excuses about their lack or achievement of success. Tom my message to you is not so much an attack, as an attempt to enlighten you to the fact that you thoughts are aged and biased to your opinions of how things should work, not how they do.
I'm just so tired of the ignorance,name calling, and egos. Say what you will about this lengthy post and the "reasons" behind it, but I have my name proudly attached to it, I believe and meant every word.
Clayton Feldman
Ps. Kaleb, I appreciate the kind words, I always admired your work ethic and dedication to L5 and cycling as a whole.
Feldman a.k.a. side-show-bob when are you going to move on past the little 5 era of your life? Its sad to hear that during your 2010 victory party you and your comrades were talking about how heavy your hands were getting from all the rings that you had accumulated...honestly you all suck as people and are the cockiest "family" I have ever seen. As for you specifically feldman you did call people out on the track and you did always act like you were better than everyone by the way you carried yourself. I think Pam really needs to reconsider. Screw banning young from the race I think the cutters should be banned from the track.
God says cutters blow.
Dude, drink another Pabst and hit the sack. Don't worry, drunk blogging is a minor sin.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Clayton Feldman. A stellar product of the Cuter program.
The Little 500 Riders Hall of Fame is the most prestigious award given to a Little 500 rider. Each new inductee must be a graduating senior with at least three years of race experience. As the plaque reads, other criteria are as follows:
Given to senior Little 500 riders outstanding in both ability and attitude; those who excel on the track and exemplify excellence in the Little 500; those who represent the Spirit of the Little 500 and a desire to help others.
It's funny that all the haters don't attach names to their posts. Be a real man/woman instead of hiding behind a fake name and this blog would be so much better especially come spring time when the track opens
It is funny when anonymous people call out others for posting as anonymous.
Clayton, I’ve read your post about 10 times and fail to see the point you are trying to make, other than you think I’m an ass. So I’ll try to be a bit more clear. The years IUCC is most successful in National Competition are the years when its members, most of them Little 500 riders, check their Little 500 rivalries at the door to the weekly meetings. IUCC does well from year to year when there is continuity from year to year. It’s called momentum, you know about that, the Cutter team has a boat-load of momentum. A lot of it because of you.
Imagine how much better the IUCC Track Nats team would have been if they have traveled to Trexlertown with Eric last year. The knowledge and experience gained there would have served them well. But what will be great to see, is if those people who competed this year can take the momentum from their excellent results in Indy and keep getting better. It will take dedication and hard work, both on and off the track. To do so the club needs to get better at promoting themselves and their mission, they need to get their financial house in order. To do this, the club can’t just be kind of a subset of Little 500 riders. It can look to serve the entire cycling community at IU. If they do that, then the membership swells and they have money to fund participation at Regional & National events, and do so without relying on the last-minute generosity of a Bloomington business. The UC-Boulder club is a perfect model for what IUCC should and can be.
I asked “Why?” to that poster because, as a coach, I find that any and every opportunity for a rider to improve their skills should be seized. Eric’s considerable talent was not honed solely on the cinders, he sought to widen his perspective that in the end will net him a pro cycling contract. It was Delta Chi and the Cutters that forced the Little 500 riding community to move beyond being simply great bike riders. To be a contending team, you now must be great bike racers. And it is very easy to see what teams race outside of Little 500 by their overall performance in Little 5.
But what I find distressing in your comments is your apparent contempt for the Little 500. Many racers don’t think it is much of a bike race, but you certainly haven’t done to bad by it. This race provided you a venue in which you were able to demonstrate your considerable talent, talent that will ultimately net you a spot in the HoF. Is the Little 500 perfect? Far from it, but the days of management trying to dumb-down the Women’s race by changing the gear ratio, or trying to ban alumni coaches are behind us and I think the race is entering a new phase where more cooperation between IUSF and the riders will be the norm.
And finally, contrary to your opinion I do know haw things work today, and I am out to change them (forward not backward). Since 2004 I have sat in the stands watching some teams doing exactly what you said: “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”. That’s why I returned to coach, because momentum is not sole property of the Cutters. Momentum is not a gift, it is a job and I know of one team who will go out and put everything on the line to keep the Cutters from getting 5 championships in a row. Will Sigma Chi be able to stop your team? We won’t know that until the end of lap 200. But you can bet your ass, that’s our vision; a vision that we are ruthlessly striving to achieve.
Tom
If you can only keep your chain on your bike - and maybe be aware of other teams around you to work together - then you may find success.
Geeze, one chain on the BKB bike after CT gets side-swiped and Neff gets it back. I've done over 80 race and quals bikes for over 40 races (men and women). That is one dropped chain in over 7100 quals/race laps. Get some perspective for Christ's sake.
The rest of your post is meaningless unless you want you want to identify yourself and provide some specifics.
i dont like clayton. clayton is no doubt a hall of famer. who cares if you like him or not he was a great rider who has three rings (yes, im sure his hands are getting heavy) who single handedly won the 09 race and if there was no rain would have been the major factor for lapping the field in the 10 race. most complete rider i rode against other than young of the post hans era.
the rain had already begun when they got the gap.
Yes the rain began as they launched their attack; Schroeder and Lusk didn't even get on the bike to put in some harder laps and they had at least a half lap lead so it is hard to tell whether they could have got the lap but then again who knows and who really cares because they ended up winning again.
Going to go ahead and say that Clayton probably didn't write that post...not that hard to make a fake blogger account
Shut up and ride your bikes
House party with 13 1/2 guys post race. Independent. Tearing up the bars then taking a slampiece on a one way ticket to pound town post race. Frat
You should go pretty far in life with that sort of perspective on women there Fratty. Speaking for all independents I think it's fair to say we don't need to pay to live in a shitty house with a bunch of dudes, who are our so called "brothers" even though every party its a battle to see who can conquer the most bitches (most of which are freshmen because they don't know the system yet). Sounds like a good life to me...for a price that only the desperate are willing to pay
that is always funny to hear that comment because that is just what it looks like from the outside looking in... parties account for about 5% of life in the frat.
the other 95% must be pretending you're better than everyone else huh?
Ding. Pay the man Shirley.
Frat
back to the paying for friends thing - question : where do you live? or did you live in college. if you answer a dorm, house, or apartment - guess what - YOU ARE PAYING AS WELL. Most fraternities are on par with dorms in cost for room and board. Extra costs - so call paying for your friends - goes towards food, dances, etc. Im sure you pay that same amount in the course of a year on dirty 30s at Big Red and your so called 5 buck cup get togethers.
Frats are for people that feel the need to be accepted in life. Dorms are for people that could care less what people think of them and will get along fine with just about anyone. Frats are way more expensive. Don't kid yourself! The hazing rituals while toned down from what they were are still a pathetic way to humiliate/have power over someone. That is a continuation of a high school clique mindset. It's a miaracle a frat ever wins the race because they are so worried about their status, their clothing, their social life, and whatever else that they have way less time to train and focus on winning.
You know why we pay more to have a great time? Because we can. You know why we party so hard? Because we can. You know why we slay your girlfriend? Because we can. Frat
You know why Cutters win every Little 500? Because we can! We save all our partying for after the race and after the hay is in the barn. Where does all this money come from? Did you earn it? Oh, that's right your parents bought you the clothes, fed you the money, and gave you that false sense of confidence. You are just living off their hard work. It's ok, we would rather win the race.
I am living off their hard work, and its awesome!
You're like a male Paris Hilton huh? good job.
God, I thought PS3 was bad. GP, PLEASE close this thread!
Tom,
You do have the option to stop reading it you know!
as a "frat guy" i just wanted to say if you have to go to a informative cycling blog to talk about how sweet you are, you have problems and are trying way to hard. this site is a good resource to keep up to date on what is going on in the cycling world, not juicy campus.
Well I guess that works both way and clearly both parties are joking around. Nobody really cares about what some random person says on a blog especially when it's anonymous.
Is there anyway we can get some scholarships hooked up for IUCC? I'm tired of paying tuition
Everyone sucks. Tom - give less shits at this point. Everyone else - 10 of the 20 frats pay less than dorms to live there, thats a fact assholes. Fact. The Frat guys feel self worth - because they meet lots of girls over the course of a year, and no they did not pay for any of it. it comes to them, its like living in a dorm and living in room 101, rooms 102,103,104, and so on are bound to walk by and say hello at some point right. maybe meet them and suggest a future get together. in frats sake its a future slam wagon.
and ps - everyone loves that the cutters always save it till post race and then get their due. i am sure they get their due before, just like the 5 or 6 other teams that are at their level. every year those 5 or 6 teams compete and train near the same level. only difference is attitude, endurance, and form. depending on the three is the outcome, so far cutters are averageing a great percentage since like 1983. question though, although its a great tradition: "can you move away from bloomington or are you set in stone for life?"
Don't trash on Bloomington! I'll never leave the bakehouse ball sack!
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh real monsters!
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