Miss and Out proved it’s unpredictability with an exciting and unexpected day of racing at the L5 track yesterday. Mechanical issues were arguably the big winner of the day as Eric Young, Matt Kain and Eric Anderson all suffered chain-failures that obviously cost them their chances. The big marker of the day was thrown down by Phi Delta Theta who placed three guys in the final and rode beautifully in the early rounds to eliminate Coudright and Mercer. Steve Sharp won in as dominant a fashion as possible, basically leading the final from the front and never being headed. Quay and DRR showed they know how to ride MnO with second final appearances. Arguably most impressive was Andrew Morrow’s ride in the semi-final where he crushed his opponents with consecutive out-of-the-saddle-eating-the-stem efforts. PDT has all but sealed the white jersey with their 1-3-6 finish with both Cutters and FIJI having sub-par days and Phi Psi having a little bad-luck (Brown) or double teamed by PDT (Mercer).
Team parity was the word of the day in the Womens race with KD, DG, KKG, AGD, Teter and Pi Phi each with one rider in the final. It was fitting that the three strongest riders came together at the end with CvK, Caroline Brown and Lauren Half all lined out with a lap to go. In the end CvK just got faster and faster and rode the other girls off of her wheel with an impressive piece of front-running, putting to rest any concerns that she can’t finish. It all points to a very even womens race but we learn more about that next week after Team Pursuit.
IDS report
IDS Slide Show
CvK about to drop the hammer
The Mens Finish - thanks to Brian Drummy
CvK about to drop the hammer
The Mens Finish - thanks to Brian Drummy
71 comments:
Must say, great job PDT!
Slow, boring final sprint.
Probably Safe to say Anonymous you weren't in the finals. Kind of funny making comments about the dance that you weren't invited to.
I guess all that talk about C. Brown for HOF is over?
No, I think she is still the one to look out for on the track come race-day.
Leave Caroline alone you prick!
Woj
The IDS swayed me today into believing that the Cutters are about to take the white, yellow, and green jerseys!
Woj,
It isn't very nice to call people names.
are the cutters really going to take the white jersey too? Those guys are incredible! Sounds like Lusk has been using the hot tub time machine to go into the future and come back to give us all of the answers in life!!!
For no good reason you would be right. Pick on the Cutters, not their girlfriends. Caroline isn't a trash talker and never has been. She's not campaigning for the Hall of Fame. It's the same type of person writing that about her that would kiss her ass if they ever talked to her. She's completely underserving of any negative comments regarding last years race or the hall of fame.
Woj
Woj,
It is possible to not hate the Cutters and dislike one of their girl friends. From what I have heard Pam isn't a huge fan of Ms. Brown and I wouldn't think she hates the Cutters. To that point, I would add that I never said anything about not liking her. Rather, I was pointing out the fact that people on this very message board mentioned her as a possible HOF.
The idea of election into the HOF is a different issue then liking her or not. It is about changing the face of the race and the events around it. Being a person who was clearly a cut above all others. She did a wonderful job in last years race and I am not taking that away from her. But even if she wins this year, she has not won any of the series events and to me that would be enough not to let her in.
If Clayton wins this year he doesn't make it either, four years with a team and three personal wins, no series events though, that has to keep him out. He has in no way shaped the race either, winning is just not enough
You guys really don't understand Little 5 if you don't think Clayton "shaped the race".
Did you watch last year at all? The entire field (that's you guys on here) had the opportunity to leave him three times and all three times he closed (2 penalties and one wreck) and he rode 100 laps, that is shaping the race.
Once you beat him, which none of you have, come back and say this.
No one thinks that he is not a great rider. But does he deserve the HOF? NO, you must have so individual wins to set you apart from others. If not then anyone who has been a winning team should be in the HOF.
I have heard that Pam has some quite strong feelings towards Caroline, and to say she has nothing against the cutters? You have got to be kidding me.
Reread my post. I said nothing about the HOF.
To address that point, if he wins a third race as a rider and a fourth if you count his rookie year, rides like he did last year (which like Chartiet said was damn impressive) and throw in a Miss n out final and a few top ten ITTs, you have a career that deserves HOF consideration.
He will have a career that no one else can match.
LeTs GeT bAcK tO tHiS tImE mAcHiNe. HoW cAn I gEt OnE aNd Is It PoSsIbLe To UsE iT tO bEaT tHe CuTtErS?! AnD CaN iT bE uSeD tO gO bAcK iN tImE aNd ChAnGe ClAyToNs AtTiTuDe So PeOpLe WiLl AcTuAlLy LiKe HiM??!!?!?
BtW, I aM wRiTiNg ThIs FrOm ThE yEaR 2021 WhIcH iS wHy ThE LeTtErS aRe AlL jUmBlEd Up
with hindsight (from the future) being 20/20, what can the competitive teams do to beat the cutters?
ps. long live phi delta theta
My feelings have nothing to do with how I feel about the HOF. I like Clayton, but when it comes down to it the HOF is something that is above just the race. You must in MY MIND have some individual results to back up your races. It might be a different story if in the race he out sprinted someone for the win 3 times or lapped the field by himself.
So stop assuming that feelings play into this at all. I guess I just hold the HOF to a higher standard then many of your guys do.
Dear Anonymous,
There have been over a dozen posts regarding her riding ability and her character in the past month. They are all from anonymous people. So, I blame you for all of them until you start signing your name. It's hard to determine which anonymous poster I'm talking to each time.
Do you realize she most likely has another year of eligibility? And she hasn't even raced yet this year and only has 2 teammates? If she won with 3 this year, I could care less about series events. She would be in at some point. She rode one of the top 3 individual performances in Little 5 history last year. I am talking laps wise, and she had to chase back on a couple times.
She has never campaigned for HOF, so for you to see her get 2 second place finishes and say she's out of contention is plain stupid. The 1st place girl is no slouch if you didn't notice. There can be 2 future HOFers in the same race you know. At this point its not determined, but to say shes out for getting 2nd twice in a little series event is you just trying to be an idiot for fun at her expense.
I'm also appalled that you "heard" that Pam doesn't like her. So what? Have you met her? Do you know Pam personally?
I'm not saying she's already in, but I'm almost positive she's going a 5th year.
As for Clayton, it's already been said. The race is the most important part of your career, and he might be the first Little 500 rider on the history of the new track with 3 rings if they win. That's HOF especially because he has always been the co #1 or #2 rider. His team finished off the front once with his help, and last year brought them back from death 3 times. That is a hell of a lot more impressive than a series event.
The reason I get so fired up is because I was the big target back in the day, and was hearing the same things about never being even close to being considered for HOF. I think it was posted by anonymous as well. Go figure.
Woj
How many people have lapped the field by themselves or won 3 sprint victories? You realize how small the list would be? Jim Lohman for Fiji made HOF and he never won an individual series event, won 1 race not as the sprinter and finished 2nd once. His team won Team Pursuit 1 or 2 times. How did he get in? Did the rules change recently? Kurt Gensheimer never finished higher than 4th place in the race, and won ITT's and miss n out and he's in.
Are you saying that series events are more important than the race? Do you realize that the race is 200 laps? ITT's are 4 laps. That's a good measuring stick for girls because they race only 100 laps but 4 laps for guys is not a great measure of strength. The best riders can do at least 12 and I guarantee the ITT results would be much different if they were.
Woj,
I will not sign my name. It is way to fun to watch your get fired up over this. I find it odd that you are in Brown's corner so much. I guess I don't remember this same kind of fight for your our rider Reike? Maybe you don't think she should have been considered either?
Being the supporting cast of on a team has its perks and Clayton got his rings. HOF NO WAY!!! Jordan and Pippen where HOF for the Bulls. Rodmen was not.
Ha ha. Yeah right! I love Sarah! I make it a point to not comment on my own riders in season, but you can pull up my HOF posts about her on P & S, and yes she obviously deserved it! 1 win, got a half lap lead on the field at 1 point, set the ITT record, Won miss n out 2 times, won Team Pursuit and almost got that record, won quals 2 times, and won the field sprint twice for 2nd place. Her victory is where she closed a gap on the field of a quarter lap, and then opened up a bigger gap once we had it. She was also the team captain that made sure everyone was doing their job. She was a tough cookie sometimes, but so are a lot of great riders, and out personal bond gets stronger every year. I honestly can't say enough good things about her.
Did you ride for Teter? Your/our rider? Leaving her out was a big mistake that year. She had 4 series victories + a 2nd in ITT's and she won. If that's not HOF than what is?
By the way, Jordan wouldn't have won shit without Pippen, so you example is terrible. Pippen is an HOFer. Rodman would be the 3rd rider. Without Clayton's defense last year, Bulls win nothing...I mean Cutters.
But thanks for noticing what a great dynasty we have going with Cutters.
Woj
I will say that the cutters have not shown up during series events and that there is no way we can win the white jersey. Phi Delts have shown they are a different team from last year and they deserve it hands down. That girl that wrote the article called me the day after quals so that is when i said those things. I knew this would spark some discussion, haha. Green jersey, gold jersey, who gives a shit. As for a hot tub time machine I'd love to get one so I can rest my legs cuz we've been training through series events. The race is when it counts; wait 12 more days then read the newspaper about my quotes
brown and feldman are both overrated.
guys, can we please stop with the personal shit talking? I have the utmost respect for both of those guys you are talking about both as riders and as people. Do you even know them? Get to know them and ride with them a bit on the track if you can keep up. Chances are, you will change your mind.
Over-rated or under-rated they both have rings so put that in your pipe and smoke it bitches. IN fact Clayton has 2; one for each hand, funny how that works
Brown sat in the entire race last year, got lucky and cant seem to do well individually now a year later (ITT, MissNOut) That seems overrated to me.
2nd place behind CVK? CVK isn't a slouch by any means so I don't see where your getting this over-rated nonsense you god damn retard
cant seem to do well individually?? caroline has done phenomenally, out of about 130 women riders, she placed second in miss n out and itts. i think that is incredible- especially with the caliber of women riders this year.
Woj-
We all don't have rings so the conversation might be able to end there. However, focusing on the HOF seems to be the topic of conersation here. There have been plenty of comparisions for both Rieke and Brown and since you seem to know them both, can you provide comment on whether they hold true to what the actual plaque reads?
As stated: Given to senior Little 500 riders outstanding in both ability and attitude; those who excel on the track and exemplify excellence in the Little 500; those who represent the Spirit of the Little 500 and a desire to help others.
Seems there is really two parts - Ability and Attitude - and I don't think anyone can argue about the 'ability' of either of the riders. Let's also throw CVK into the conversation since she too has 'ability' covered.
What about the second part, the 'attitude' portion? You've coached 2 of 3 and likely know the 3rd. Can you comment? So far, I've seen the following on Rieke:
"She was also the team captain that made sure everyone was doing their job. She was a tough cookie sometimes" Team captain, but did she help others in the Little 500 community? My memory was that she was, I guess, loud-pitched with her teammates and other riders. Might have rubbed people the wrong way or not perceived as the "Spirit of the Little 500" and would then only meet 1/2 the HOF standards.
I don't see many quotes on Brown other than Pam doesn't like her. Any reasons? Does she help others? She isn't on RC according to the IUSF site and I read she only has 2 teammates!? That can't be good and is surprising coming off a win to only get two riders. Does she represent the Spirit of the Little 500?
CVK seems to have ability and I've heard nice things about from folks who met her on a cycling tour but I'm sure you can provide some further insight for us all? In my opinion, she sounds like the winner of the 3 (understand there can be more than 1) pending race results next Friday
If you are on the Committee and can further describe the process for us all, that too would be helpful.
Just a little something for you and others...
I personnaly think spring series is way overated for HOF and in general. Look at clowns like phi delts who always have all the hype and always do terrible on race day. Clayton was MVP of 09 race, and if he dominates again why not HOF?
Does this mean that Clayton and I will be out of the running for cutest couple? Anyway we can make y'all change your mind?
Caroline
makeout n front of everyone on race day!
I will just say that Sarah Reike had the attitude of someone that cared deeply about Little 500, made her teammates better, was a general in the pack as most vocal leaders are, and was far and above on the riding part. She was on riders council once as well. She comes back every year to suppoirt her team and helps me a great deal. Sometimes winners get a bad rap because the spotlight is always on. If someone was really quiet would that make them aloof and not credible for Little 5 HOF.
The reason I didn't camapaign for her last summer was a very good one but I did campaign for her right after the race.
I don't comment on current riders but I will just say I'm extremely lucky to have CVK on my side win or lose.
Woj
Anonymous said, "makeout n front of everyone on race day!"
I think she crossed that one off last year.
Woj said, "If someone was really quiet would that make them aloof and not credible for Little 5 HOF."
I think that has been answered with Sasha not getting inducted his Senior Year and the crowd smirking and shaking their head and using the voting slips as a coaster after Clayton's speech last year.
Just my two cents from behind the curtain.
People fear what they don't understand
Hate what they can't conquer
Guess it's just the fury of man
Well we all know what Clayton is like. What is Brown like? The fact that she is not on riders council doesn't help her case with getting into the HOF. And, why does Pam not like her? I agree that the HOF is about more than ability, so what does Brown have to show outside of her ability.
I think it is a shame that others have gone to personal attacks. If you think someone is not qualified for the HOF that is fine. But there is never any need to attack someone else.
I would also like to speak on Reike's behalf. She did do a great deal of Fall cycling events, which over the past few years has become less and less attended. Those events are put on by the IUSF, so her participation in that speaks to her commitment to L5 and the IUSF.
(I know many people don't think much about Fall Series, but if IUSF is putting on the events I think riders should at least show up.)
Yes, She won the fall time trial 3 years in a row, won the cyclocross once or twice. She may be the only rider in history to win every single race Little 500 has to offer.
Woj
explain why there are so many people in the HOF from the past that have done so little in comparison to Sasha, Sarah, Clayton, etc. it makes no sense why the HOF isnt a bigger group. Why is anyone against letting more people in? HOF should be about someone who did change the race or altered it for the better. Not everyone is Hans or Woj and is able to lap the field to add to their credentials. It shouldnt be so hard to get in that even after you win the race twice and a few spring series events you still arent in.
Caroline made a very serious attempt to be on RC this year, however the before mentioned issue of Pam not liking her personally(I will not speak further on this issue, but I will say there are concrete examples) stood in the way of her making RC. Not her inability to make friends or help rookies.
I have been at the track quite a bit when Caroline is there and she seems to be one of the more friendly riders. She has done nothing but try to make friends out of other little five riders. Personally attacking her is an awful attempt to lessen what she did last year, or what she might do this year.
Why does it always have to come to personal attacks on others? Just like my Mother always told me, some people just have to put others down to make themselves feel better. So if that is what you need to do, you need to make everyone around you little so you feel big, then I guess I understand. Just don't sign Anonymous, sign "some random asshole" so we all know to not take your post seriously.
The last two posters hit the nail on the head. There has been an HOF for the guys in almost every single year since 1970. The few exceptions to this are from 88-92, 92-96, 2000-2005, and 2006-present. What stands out besides 1988-1992 is that everytime someone laps the field, there is a huge drought of HOF elected memebers for 4-5 years. And Noverr was from 91 so the 88-91 drought is not that big. Lapping the field seriously hinders chances for the next few years and that's not right especially when someone wins twice and is on the bike at the end on at least one of those, wins a series events or two. The next one is to win 3 rings and never be on the bike at the end. Being a co #1 or #2 and winning 3 rings has never happened on this track. People don't realize how incredibly difficult that is. Cutters have never been liked all that much and it's always been that way. I think likeability is tiny compared to how great of a rider they were. Kids at this age still have a lot of growing up to do sometimes (like me when I was 22), but that doesn't mean their attitude about Little 500 is poor, or that they didn't make their teammates better.
Woj
Is anyone else confused by all of this? I was looking for some good trash talking to get me fired up when I saw the last post about all the personal attacks and scanned all 44 posts. I didn't see one personal attack comment on anyone really. Someone mentioned Brown being attacked but I only see some moron commenting about her not doing well in events and getting lucky last year? That person is not smart but I don't see that as a personal attack. Can someone point it out to me. I just see it as Woj and other anonymous people talking themselves into it being personal. And maybe there is a bigger issue there or why someone feels they are personal attacks since the last person commented that they know concrete examples but won't comment? That's confusing.
I don't know Brown personally or the other female riders mentioned but feel that I now know Reike and her qualifications as stated from the race, series events both fall and spring, being on RC and continuing to support her team that it is a shame she isn't in the HOF and I'm sure others can be added to that list.
Some Random @sshole
How do I get a hold of one of these hot tub time machines?
Dear Random,
There were other threads with personal attacks on her. We aren't making it up. Check the 2 ITT threads for reference. This thread was just a little more of the same like, "I guess since she got 2nd in 2 series events you can count her out of the HOF" That is stupid because she has 2 races left and a full year of series, and 2nd place is a good result especially since 1st place is a great rider.
Woj
I am not sure that is even a personal attack. I think that is closer to a personal opinion. Clearly that author feels as though you must prove something in the Spring Series. Right or wrong, that person feels as though she will not make the HOF because of her spring results. They said nothing about her as a person.
Dear Woj,
Thanks for the guidance. I see that now. The Grandma rebuttal was funny but the nonsense comment was again stupid. That is the only personal attack. The 2nd in series events isn't a personal attack and that person is an idiot.
Looks like since she lives with Clayton and apparently his vibe amongst us riders has rubbed off on her. All that said, if she has 2 races left shouldn't the conversation be tabled until next year? Just make sure you tell her to actually dress-up for the RC interview like everyone else did. I was told that is one of those concrete examples that won't be mentioned.
Some Random @sshole
"I guess all that talk about C. Brown for HOF is over?"
"By default I think Brown is labeled this allstar rider of the women's field but in my opinion she shouldnt be because she doesn't ride on the track all that much. Too busy out training with Clayton I suppose...she can pull through for a couple laps as far as I'm concerned if she wants to be considered a good rider in my book. My grandmother could ride the race she did last year"
"It is possible to not hate the Cutters and dislike one of their girl friends. From what I have heard Pam isn't a huge fan of Ms. Brown"
Okay so that is what I found. You're sort of right, that they are mostly just opinions and not terribly mean to most, but it's mean to her. The Pam comment isn't necessary either. If you knew the story it would upset you too. And to say her HOF chances are over is not personal but it is baiting her and not a valid comment of an intelligent person. So the intentions were to get under peoples skin, and not just merely an uninformed opinion.
Typically the written words are not the actual meaning of what the poster is trying to do. Usually there is a hidden agenda to piss someone off, especially when it's anonymous.
Woj
So, I was a less than average ability rider, for everyone's reference, but hey, let's let everyone into the HOF. We're all winners! I think it should be difficult to get into the HOF, so it would mean that much more to be selected.
Hey if we all get in this hot tub, we can jump-port to the future and see all the answers....whos with me???
Woj-
We don't know the story and if we did, we might have a different reaction than you. Should be stories, plural, as there are always two sides. No one shares what they know so no one really knows. Get it? Anyways, to your comments you copied:
"I guess all that talk about C. Brown for HOF is over?"
- Can be tabled to next year apparently. (Reike should be in and CVK is pending race results as I've stated but didn't sign the post SR@)
"By default I think Brown is labeled this allstar rider of the women's field but in my opinion she shouldnt be because she doesn't ride on the track all that much. Too busy out training with Clayton I suppose...she can pull through for a couple laps as far as I'm concerned if she wants to be considered a good rider in my book. My grandmother could ride the race she did last year"
- I'd like to smack this person around a little bit. Probably never won anything in his/her life and sure as hell doesn't know bike racing. Her team and her rode a great race last year and I was laughing thinking she was an Army rider trying to sprint a lap down. Head scratching ensued but the commentators quickly cleared up my confusion.
"It is possible to not hate the Cutters and dislike one of their girl friends. From what I have heard Pam isn't a huge fan of Ms. Brown"
- This reads that the person has no ill feelings towards the Cutters but does Brown and leads me to believe it is because Pam doesn't like her they don't like her? I don't know the story/stories so who knows.
Your last comment about a hidden agenda and the inferred meaning I can live with and would agree with you. Maybe I should ask about DIRECT personal attacks and not comments about who people date and/or racing strategy.
Alright, I'm going to go look for this hot tub now...
Some Random @sshole
Hey at least you can form a good opinion! Rational thoughts go a long way man.
There was a concrete story with concrete evidence regarding Caroline. If I told you, you would be like, Oh Hot Damn! Hot tamale! Stuff like that.
Woj
Woj
have you ever thought about doing something with your day other than getting on these messageboards and talking alot? maybe getting a job?
-asshole
Caroline is an all-star rider, not a HOFer. She has the ability but not the likeability to get her in. As stated from above she doesn't do anything for the good of Little 5; she doesn't help others and frankly I don't blame her because there is so much shit talking about her between teams I wouldn't help anyone but myself. Even with this being said she isn't HOF worthy. She rode an amazing race last year and has competed very well thus far this year but before the finish of last year's race no one knew who the hell she was...HOF in my book is competing at the top level for all years that you are involved and top level is top 3-7 for women. If she wins again this year it's hard to vote against her ability but no one seems to like her much and it is after all a popularity contest. Maybe Clayton can stand and give a speech on her behalf at the banquet and seal my little 5 career off right! I'm praying so atleast
Alright now the personal attacks on me! Sweet. I'm at my job right now buddy. Same job for the last 5 years. It pays pretty well. Got a house and wife, and I coach two sports year round and I still have time to defend good people that don't deserve to be attacked.
I bet you're really wealthy and have a big family, and race to the podium on the weekends. That's my initial thought of you. My second thought is that you're a little wimp, with no ability to win anything or the balls to stand up for yourself or anyone else unless you have a bodyguard. : )
Woj
And the last poster fails again. Caroline has another year. If she won this year and next and still has 3 series events you should probably keep her out? Fame is part of the phrase. Clearly, she has fame because that's all everyone talks about. There are frankly double the number of people commenting positively on her than negative as well.
It's so funny how you guys weigh riding ability equally with likeability. Riding is so much more important. Clearly we wouldn't talk about her if she was super likable and just a decent rider. But if she wore jeans to an interview she deserves to be nailed the cross I guess huh? Not one person has provided any example of why they didn't like her, except that she wore jeans to an interview. Crazy
Woj-
Pleae note that whoever is infringing on my yet to be copyrighted name wasn't me. But I'm glad I finally got the DIRECT personal attack and then the counter by you that I was looking for!! ;-)
Some Random @sshole
No problem. I think he thinks I actually get upset over this stuff.
Woj
Are we finished here?
-Vargo
I'm going to miss you man! I'm done here.
Woj
My voo doo dolls say all you black spirits are going to crash on race day. Then, you will once and for all learn the lesson that jealousy and unkindness serve no good purpose.
I say we all COOL OUT and take it easy on all the riders. It's pretty sad when there are 64 comments about ANY rider (even though 32 are from Woj).
Let's get back to Patches original comment...
"I must say, great job PDT!"
Anyone remember the last time a team was going for three in a row? Maybe the boys with the hot tub time machine could give us some insight.
On another note...I love it how the Cutters think think they are the only riders training through series events. I'm dying to see Patches and Hank's ultimate peak for race day...
sorry...4 in a row...I'm getting loose in my old age.
Know what I mean Tom? you can relate!
Brown's a great rider, no question. Feldman too has shown he's a great rider. I don't know Brown nor have I ever interacted with her but based on her riding she's HOF in my book. Feldman on the other hand definitely needs some outside consideration. This is my second year of riding and during my rookie week, Feldman was on RC and was using a megaphone to call out Rookie Week MNO. Keep in mind these are all rookies. Feldman proceeded to call a kid out who finished 3rd in his heat by saying
"You're in (referring to the first rider), you're in (2nd), and you suck" referring to the 3rd rider who was knocked out. This was my first impression of Feldman and in my book someone who disrespects other riders in that manner doesn't deserve HOF.
I don't know who made the "train through series event" comment it was not me, even though it is true. My earlier comment was sincere. My apologies if it was interpreted as sarcastic. Phi Delts showed up at MNO and they deserve lots of credit for that.
-Patches
Anyone have a video of the men's quarter where Brown got called out at the finish? I just want to make sure I am not blind.
-Adams...
As an outsider reading this site, I don't know who "Pam" is. Anyone care to enlighten me?
Pam is the current race director
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