Photo from IDSnews.comThe chasing teams in the finale took positions 2-5 but all had largely anonymous days and played second fiddle to CvK. Defending champ Pi Phi made a solid attempt at repeating with Caroline Brown riding over 70 laps before being sadly taken out of the race with a separated shoulder after colliding with a horrible Delta Gamma exchange (that strangely wasn’t penalized). Pi Phi’s day was pretty wild with a lot of exchange uncertainty that eventually caused them a 5 second penalty that put the final nail in their attempts to be competitive for the win. Brown had done a great job keeping Pi Phi on the lead lap for 70 laps but her team-mates also deserve some credit for holding onto the teams fifth position for the last 20 laps. The other issue of the day was the amazing amount of creeping that was allowed by the judges: when a 25 rider pack forms after 85 laps you know something is up!
There were only a few crashes throughout the race but those that occurred were nasty! An Air force rider was taken off with a broken clavicle in the first 5 laps but the worst of the day was when Lauren Sewell (I think) of Army wrecked between turns3+4 out of sight of her team. She sickeningly hit the ground face first that apparently resulted in a broken nose and clavicle. To her enormous credit she actually got back on her bike and make it round to the pit in tears before being eventually being taken to the medical tent. Caroline Brown hit the ground close to the gutter in a crash that also involved a Zeta rider performing a nasty face-plant. It always seems much worse when a girl lands on her face then it does when the same happens to some ugly dude.
With all of Teter’s riders coming back next year I think it’ll be easy to select next years favorites as they try to make it 3 wins in 7 years!
Pi Phi (yellow) and Zeta crash. Photo idsnews.com
55 comments:
I also do not understand how DG was not penalized. I watched it on TV and thought the same thing as soon as I saw the replay. The exchange may have been in the 3rd groove for riding. They should probably be relegated to 5th, last team on the lead lap instead of 3rd, but I am sure that will not happen.
I watched it on HDNET and the one thing that stood out to me was that as soon as the teams started to make up some ground under yellow that the officials really made them slow down. That saved the race for Teter, because if the teams could have seen the green a little earlier it might have been closer.
Maybe, but Teter didn't put Dana out because of the yellow. With three all out sprint laps she could have likely opened it up a little more. And what was stopoping the pack the from gaining any ground during Laurie's or Gowdy's set?
Nothing, but Gowdy had a huge head start on the green because she was in the lead and the pack was not able to see the green drop. My point was that if they had made up a little ground that may have been a factor.
Dana was ready to open that gap bigger, but her turn got taken away because of the yellow. Gowdy started to cramp from going too slow under yellow. They all had another set in them if they needed to.
I don't think anyone thinks the girls didn't have another set in them. I think the person was talking about how the yellow HELPED their chances. I do think he was right, the gap started to close during the yellow, I am sure that Woj must have been yelling at them.
All it did was give everyone including the field a chance to rest for 4-5 laps. Gowdy probably saw green first obviously, but that is typically 1 second. Dana doing 3 all out laps would have widened the gap. At the end, Caitlin was gaining time again during the last couple laps as Kappa was sacrificing the sprint to try to continue to chase.
The mechanic for Teter was helping the judges make sure the gap went back to 14 seconds as it closed to 9 seconds during yellow for a while.
Pi Phi would not have been lapped if not for that penalty.
Agreed. If not for that penalty Brown would have been able to catch the lead pack again. Would she have been able to sprint? Probably not, but she would have been in the mix for sure. The penalty was probably deserved however I find it odd/sad that Pi Phi was the only team-- other than Lioness who blatantly made up tons of ground under yellow)-- who received a penalty, and a big penalty too. There were quite a few times where other contending teams should have received penalties and did not, Pi Phi was undoubtedly singled out. Their "illegal exchange" did not get in the way of any other teams and it did not help them at all, it hurt THEM. The penalty was given almost 10 laps after the exchange an no one said anything to Kirkham in the pit. The only person who made a big deal about it was Tom; he actually left his own pit to walk over to the officials by Pi Phis pit and yell at them... his team was already 3 laps down so I am trying to figure out why he was so determined to have that penalty given to them. Its hard to believe that his team had no penalties since I was by his pit when one of their ghost exchanges got off path and crashed into another teams pit.
The only reason Brown's team stayed 6th was because Army was 2 laps down when she crashed but still in 7th place, in the last laps Army was able to gain their lap back on the two remaining Pi Phi girls and finish only a few seconds behind them.
Caroline Brown was dead tired as she should have been. Great amazing effort but they were not catching the lead pack at that point. They chased back on well the first few times after being at least a straightaway back.
at what point? After the penalty? I agree after the penalty they wouldn't catch but if she didn't have to serve that 5 second penalty she would have caught up, I am sure of it.
how far back were they before the penalty? i wouldn't put it past Caroline to catch again. A 5 second penalty is just over a 3rd of a lap in real time. Even if she caught, Teter was ahead of that pack by 10 seconds.
"Their "illegal exchange" did not get in the way of any other teams and it did not help them at all, it hurt THEM. The penalty was given almost 10 laps after the exchange an no one said anything to Kirkham in the pit. The only person who made a big deal about it was Tom; he actually left his own pit to walk over to the officials by Pi Phis pit and yell at them... his team was already 3 laps down so I am trying to figure out why he was so determined to have that penalty given to them. Its hard to believe that his team had no penalties since I was by his pit when one of their ghost exchanges got off path and crashed into another teams pit. "
This is complete bullshit! At no time did I go to the judge and complain about Pi Phi, If you have any balls, you would sign a post like that! I talked to MY JUDGE about Army, and I talked to Chad about it after the race. You are fucking blind if you saw me go to the Pi Phi judge any time during the race. And we were 2 laps down NOT three. We were warned by the judge about our bike to bike tags and nothing else.
I agree that Caroline was riding an excellent race and would have expected her to catch at least the back of leaders (but in all likelihood, she would not have caught Teter) after serving the penalty. I think that a penalty on their botched exchange may have been warranted, as it was, truthfully, an "illegal exchange," but it does bother me that Tom left his pit to complain of it when his girls' exchanges should not be legal. It also bothers me as well that, while DG feels awful about their exchange taking out Caroline, they did not receive a penalty for it and most DEFINITELY should have. There is also a point in the race where Kappa Kappa Gamma rides IN THE GUTTER, and BLATANTLY so, through almost a whole turn to pass 3 or 4 riders, and they also did not receive a penalty for this, when last in last year's men's race the Cutters were penalized for riding in the gutter and race tape showed that the rider was nowhere NEAR the gutter. I know people in power and race organizers and pit judges would, in a perfect world, be completely unbiased, however; the blatant prejudice shown in the last few years' races against the Cutters (and those associated with them, like Brown and Pi Beta Phi), is completely ridiculous.
"The mechanic for Teter was helping the judges make sure the gap went back to 14 seconds as it closed to 9 seconds during yellow for a while."
Is a mechanic allowed to do that? If so then great job by them. I know our mechanic could hardly pay attention to the race, let alone lobby with judges.
Well, he was showing her when the clock started and when the teams were rolling and he told her to call the head judge to let them know it went from 14 to 9 seconds. Just to be safe because they miss stuff like that.
I guess that is the value in having a mechanic that has ridden in the race before? If I am not misinformed, I believe he has been their mechanic since the first win. That is a long time of working with the coach to have those types of details planned out. I am sure that Woj let him know what to do in those types of situations.
He did that on his own, but he has been our mechanic since the first year I coached and is Sarah Rieke's husband. He's a smart dude and isn't going anywhere.
Woj
What all does a mechanic do? I have never been able to watch a race in person and follow what they do? Teter did not wreak so does he just stand there? If so it would be easy to get a watch out and time the gap.
He watches for wrecks, cleans the cinders off the chains, changes seat heights after every set, brings the bikes over for every exchange, so they are quite important.
Woj
Woj,
I am going to put you on the spot. Could you win with a bad mechanic?
Did your mechanic Friday help you win? Does he know anything about the race? You said he was Rieke's husband but did he ride? Do riders make better mechanics?
Yes he rode in the race and it's important that he did. I guess you can win with a bad mechanic but why would you want to take the chance? They have to be decent because they need to look at me on every single lap whether they are adjusting the bike or not. They also have to fix the bikes rather quickly if something goes wrong. If only one bike is working, good luck if you have riders with different heights. He is not an actual bike mechanic, he just knows how to fix bikes. And more importantly knows how the race is run. A great mechanic without knowledge of the race is not much help, especially if he is not paying attention to the coach.
Woj
Maybe Pi Phi deserved a penalty according to the rule book for their "illegal" exchange, however what was illegal did not occur during an exchange, Caroline continued to ride, was on the back of the lead group and the next lap exchanged. They did not get in anyones way, they did the actual exchange inside of their exchange box. The fact that no one knew about the penalty until it was announced over the PA is all ridiculous, talking to Mike Howard at the prerace meeting he said they would let the pit know before a penalty was announced, funny I think I have heard that before somewhere.
I really doubt the person posting as Tom was Tom, if it is then I'm suprised to see him cursing.
My heart hurts because all you can ever really hope for is a fair race, hoping that you stay out of wrecks as well. However Caroline who tried so hard all year to do everything right, found herself penalized in a questionable way. Then she found herself in the wrong place, now she has to suffer physically outside of the race, which no one ever wants.
I know we celebrated at 104 when we thought the race was over, however I didn't want it to end that way, I was pissed that as we were making a move the weather stopped the race in a way we thought led to our victory. All I wanted entering the race was a fair race, impartially called, with no bias. I don't think Caroline got that, and it really hurts me to think that it might be because she is associated with me. Maybe I'm assuming something again, maybe i'm bias, however I saw a lot of other things occur on race day that might have been more dangerous or "more" illegal, that slide under the radar.
Clayton Feldman
Clayton,
Why would you be surprised to see Tom curse? He's like Dana White in that regard. That's him I think.
Sorry Clayton but the Pi Phi exchange in question did deserve a penalty (though I'm not contesting how the information about it was delivered). They had two bikes on the track for about 4 pits distance before the other girl (sorry don't know who it was) realized that Caroline was still riding! It was comical yet somewhat illegal!
the actual exchange was legal, there was no exchange when both girls were on the track. It should have been a penalty for 2 riders on the track at once. Maybe they did deserve a penalty but then so did several other contending teams and I think it is sad that they singled out pi phi and with that took away any chance of caroline closing--which she would have done-- that gap. If you're going to give out penalties you better give them out to EVERY team that deserves one.
So how far was she down before the penalty because the penalty only cost a 3rd of a lap? CVK caught and dropped her after the penalty, but that's understandable due to all the work she did.
She started almost a half a lap down gained back about 50 meters and then was assessed the 5 second penalty + having to slow down to get into the box and then get back up to speed. Every team knew she was serving that penalty and drilled it when she was in there; when she came out of the box she was down further than when she started and her spirit was gone. Thats the only reason CVK could have passed her, because L5 has sucked the life out of Caroline for this past month with all the shit you people say about her-- that penalty was the last switch.
maybe it was less about Clayton/Caroline/Cutters and more about that BIG, BRIGHT, YELLOW JERSEY she was wearing.
Sorry, Clayton/Cutters - the judges that come down for the race don't get caught up in the everyday "little 5 drama" from BVN and PS4 (PS3 is dead). They do however watch the top teams and the when the yellow jersey has two bikes on the track it is going to stand out!
Them's the facts son.
I do agree with you though...they missed a few bad ones (DG and Army).
Here we go again with the "They are out to get us and anyone associated with us" attitude. Anyone else tired of reading this? Every action or ruling or anything that is done is automatically assumed to be some grand conspiracy.
You sir, Clayton, complain that people are out to get you and lead everyone to believe that everyone is out to get you. I had no idea why you were flailing your arms during your race on the infield but watching/listening on TV when Hans interviewed you and your classless response about "They took it away from us" or something to that affect leads me to guess what it was.
I'm just an older gent now, but you need to realize the world and in your case the Foundation isn't out to conspire to bring you and those associated with you down. Going to be tough going through life with that attitude.
The Foundation is always looking for volunteers, key word there, VOLUNTEERS, to help be race officials and other responsibilities on raceday. I'm sure they'd openly welcome you and your teammates as alumni and others who'd like to help ensure that ALL infractions are called and properly enforced.
You must not be around much because if you were you would know that Mike Howard despises the Cutters. Get your facts straight.
If he "hated" us that much, he had the easy no call in the world to prove it in 2004, yet he made the right call.
I might not have class in your eyes, but I have three rings. I might be crazy for thinking people are out to get me, but I've had a (at least questionable) penalty at 172, and a (at least questionable) weather delayed race after 101 (which according to the facts I was given said race over)
Now as for why I was fired up, if your dream was to lap the field to match up to two of the most famous (or infamous) riders to ever ride for your team or any team, namely Woj and Dmitri Hubbard, then when you are on the edge of your dream, the race is red flagged and you think you've won the race anyways. You to would be fired up, when the "rules" get thrown out the window, and your team goes from half a lap up, with every other team suffering and shattered, yours truly itching to get on the bike fresh as a daisy. Instead it is an hour break for the shattered teams, and your hard work to keep the pace hot is nullified and you have to restart single file, with everyone thanking God for the rain.
If anyone wants to tell me we were not going to lap the field, then you can, however entering that race lapping the field was the only outcome I was going to settle for, at least I thought that until we won twice in one day, that probably will never happen again.
Now I might not have class, but I sure as hell have fire for Little Five, everyone might not be out to get me, but everyone wants what I have. Four years on a team, Three years as a rider, Three Yellow Jerseys, Three rings. I'm not cocky, I've grown out of that, but to suggest that I should have acted in a different way, you must be kidding yourself.
Clayton Feldman
Don't forget you were a half lap up because young was creeping on the yellow flag and gain a quarter lap on the field. It may be because his legs just don't allow him to go that slow, I dunno. I've never been that fast.
"Don't forget you were a half lap up because YOUNG WAS CREEPING ON THE YELLOW FLAG and gain a quarter lap on the field."
...within the definition of what it means to be "creeping" (advancing your position relative to the leader under a yellow flag), and Young was leading, is this a joke?
Also, any reason IUSF hasn't updated their homepage picture from the DG win in 2008? Maybe it's because the Cutters and Pi Phi didn't look as good in their podium pictures. Who knows.
Browns team is lucky that all the other teams were 2 laps down at the time of her wreck and that it was so late in the race so getting lapped again didn't change their position. However, they must have been moving pretty slow in order to have let Army and Relativity lap them within 15 laps most of which were under a yellow. I was surprised to see that Brown had such bad bike handling skills, after all she has been training with the Cutters who claim to be the best bike handlers.
You must be joking about her bike handling skills. You deserve to go to hell for saying something like that after a serious crash, which was not her fault. Seriously who do you think you are?
Caroline Brown is a stud woman! What she did in there is close to impossible. Top 6 is better than we did last year and she had 3 riders with 70+ laps, a penalty, a wreck, and two teammates that were not seasoned bike riders whatsoever. The wreck was not her fault, and was completely unfortunate because they could have finished higher. What she did in her last two races has never been done in the women's race and they are definitely hall of fame rides. To try and pile on her like this in other posts show what a small mind you must have. Congrats for a great season Caroline.
Woj
Seriously. Anonymous poster at 9.21am if you haven't anything constructive to say that isn't completely stupid please just don't bother. Thanks.
Now I am not the same poster, but I will say that I did she her cross a few wheels and get into some not so wonderful positions with the bike. Did that have anything to do with the wreak, NO. But that is the risk with not pulling, you just sit behind people and you have not idea what they will do.
Are you kidding? She was at the front for most of her 78 laps! Just look at the pictures, when she wasn't chasing the lead group down she was AT THE FRONT. She was bumped a few times by other riders during the race and not even phased by it BECAUSE she is a great bike handler.
Anybody have a DVR or record the Women's race video?
Woj
No and it looks like HDNET is not going to replay it anytime soon.
Here is a question for you Woj, do you think any other woman (CvK included) in the field could have done what Caroline did in the race?
Probably CVK, but that's it. Pack riding is tempo for them. Mentally it's probably really tough to do what she did. You need a relatively strong team or winning is close to a miracle.
Woj
Just from seeing both of them on the track at practice and in the race I really don't think that either one of them could have done what the other did. I don't think Caitlin could have ridden the race Caroline did (with only 2 laps rest and then back in to close significant gaps) and I don't think Caroline could have ridden the race that Caitlin did.
Yeah, I guess you'd have to taylor their training differently based on Caroline's situation. CVK would have been doing 30-50 lap sets in practice with chasing in if she knew the load would be that big. It would take a little power away. I just wouldn't put much past either one of them. They both have rings.
Woj
Who is anonymous at 9:47 p.m.?
Probably Hamilton
GP- No Post about Rieke making the HOF? I would have loved to hear your thoughts. Maybe you could have given a little history about why/how she made it in for us students that started riding after she left. I know she was good, but what was her HOF accomplishments?
Chirs
She won the Fall ITT 2 or 3 times, the fall cyclocross at least once, had the ITT record in the spring series, won miss n out twice, placed first, 12th, 2nd, and 2nd in the race, won Team Pursuit, won Quals twice, made her teammates better, did riders council for a year, and comes back to help her former team.
Well that is really good. No doubt she made it in.
Chris
Wow, just watched the race tape. Brown had one hell of a race. That wreck was terrible and I honestly don't know what Brown could have done to avoid it. What the hell do you do in a situation like that? Is she coming back next year?
I'm joining the conversation late, but just a point of clarification. After CVK gapped the field around lap 80, the lead was maintained by teammate Susan Laurie, who then exchanged with Lauren Gowdy right before the track went to yellow.
Proud Mama
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