Seemed like a beautiful day for Quals and the media-styled favorites Beta delivered in fine style. Full results are here. Not a hugely surprising day, just highlighting that the same teams are always there or there-about and other teams just don't train enough. Obviously CSF are the big shocker in 2nd place! Are they for real or the SNU of 2012? Phi Psi in 33rd, surely not what they were hoping for as they keep the streak of always qualifying alive...just! Tester put the expected marker down, great ride by Army and ChiO but Wing-it must surely be disappointed given the depth of their program?
Betacycling YouTube have some quals vids for your perusal..
I see Chris West didn't ride, not much chat about that on BVN but seems a little disappointing that he can't ride especially given last years eligibility issues!
8 years ago
163 comments:
Don't know what the deal is on West, good qual for Beta but I would reserve the Bera Worship for ITT,pursuit If you ask me Betas are the SNUs of 2012,along with Snu s of course.
Here is the skinny you idiot, there are 2 favorites in this years race Cutters and Phi Delts. Next tier DTD, Sigma Chi and that's it. Thereto lies the darkhorses BEta,BKB, CSF. Dark dark horses Acacia, Fiji, maybe DU. In the queens, beware the White Jersey this year! Especially ITT winner and TP winner!
DTD has a lot of fire power this year...just saying
A lot of fire power that gave them 10th place in quals? I am having trouble believing you.
beta > PDT
Agree with 10:12. Stewart didn't look fast at all. Maybe he's racing too much so over training. Also, with no Coudright what can they hope for from the rest of the team? Might be a problem with their coaching, too. What was the big argument between Ken and everyone else at bike hand off?
Inside. Inside two wide
With the pole win TETER has now won every Fall Series event, the plugout challenge and now the first even of Spring Series. No other team in the field can say they have two top five riders riding for them.
DTD is weak and Sketchy, RJ is ok but didn't look fast a all on Saturday. The deal with DTD is the rest of those guys are posers, they aren't real riders. U won't see any dealt in the top 30 of ITTs other than Stuart and I would be surprised if he breaks the top ten! Can't comment too much on the coaching thing other than It does seem that they are always in the mid no matter what the circumstance, so I gotta give ken and courtny some Credit. You have to be in it to win it, and that is more than I can say about team like Beta, Fiji, acacia, sigma chi. Cutters, DTD and PDT this year book it!
Cutters ! Stuart is ok but he lookedslow as shit on Saturday, the rest of Delts are a bunch of posers! You won't see any of them in the top 30 in ITTs. This wednessay RJ will bee lucky to crack the top 10. Can't comment too much on the coaching thing other than to say they do seem to be always there which is more than I can say for Teams like Beta, Fiji, Acacia, and BKB so they must be doing something right. Phi psi WTF? how far the mighty have fallen!
I usually don't cut it close. But when i do... I prefer 33rd.
The same teams fall apart every year (Beta, BKB, etc.), CSF was a fluke.
People put way too much credibility into quals. It's 4 laps and times are determined more by exchanges than rider quality. Teams fall apart over the course of 200 laps. Team pursuit is the true teller of team depth along with ITT times. We will see who has the team to last 200 miles. I'm thinking Sigma Chi, DTD, Beta,PDT, Cutters and maybe BKB.
It's only quals! Come race day all the teams will be pitted next to each other on the track. Green flag droppes and starting position is a wash.
Beta will crush under the weight of the green jersey like every other polesetter. Last years whateverteenth finish is already a distant memory. Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it!
Wing-It's time was much faster than what was "recorded." IUSF totally screwed them over by at least 5 seconds. They without a doubt looked like the fastest team on the track.
Even if they did get screwed by 5 seconds (which is improbable) they still wouldn't have been the fastest team on the track.
All join in....... Yeah right Tom, it must be a "timing error", couldn't be; that your girls AREN'T AS FAST as u are always telling them And it always comes back to bite you in the ass, er, wing on race day?
Polesetter always tanks on race day! Only 2 Green jersey sightings on the lead lap in the past 10 years TMT in 04 and Phi Psi in 07 From what I recall. It is the harbinger of death Beta, soooooo?
Hats off to Chi O! First top ten qualification result since 2001!
Can we just change the website name to Beta Velo-News?
It's the system right wing it? You're being screwed by IUSF...the only team experiencing this bad luck timing error? Does that mean every team was off by 5 seconds? Everyone was timed by the same people, on the same day, by the same system. Wing it was just slow yesterday. Period.
Amen! Oh and Betas suck.
Wing-It has video on an iPhone to prove their time. time it off of that and you'll see. i'm sure schwags will post it on PS3.5
Oh man an iPhone?! That is so much better than official timers why didn't you say so! JB needs to see this immediately. Rush it to the Wilcox house for examination!!!!
official timers are using stopwatches...with no video review. who knows, maybe the forgot to start the stopwatches??
People seem to forget to realize that it's an intramural sport - it's not professional timing and what not...it's not going to be perfect.
What are people's thoughts on Alpha Tau Omega being back? Interesting to see them back in the field again.
I have grainy video of the OJ murder, I'll be posting it on my ass cheek in just a sec!
3:44-- if they forgot to start their watches your time would be faster. apparently you have no grasp of how time works, you are therefore an imbecile.
Point of order! That actually would technically make you a Beta!
2010 cutters won the pole...
You're right then Beta should win, their program is very similar to Cutters. Oh wait, no it's not. 200 laps is a long way from 4.
ATO has been around under Emanon the whole time. So it's not much of a surprise. Just surprising that a frat that's been kicked off campus is allowed to ride under letters.
It shouldn't be surprising if you have read the manual. It states very clearly you are allowed to ride for a fraternity/sorority that is not recognized by the university.
West didn't ride in quals? Why? Seems PDT still showed up and got a 4th place without him. Either their team is deeper than most believe or he is just an overrated rider. I vote for the latter.
What happened to Pi Phi?
does Bissell have team in this years race?
Chris can't ride this year due to eligibility issues I believe.
As if it needs said: Quals results are not race results. It is interesting that the men's times are surprisingly tightly bundled not much more than 10 seconds separates first from 11th rows. In years past the top teams were much faster and the bottom teams were much slower.
West had his eligibility protested in front of the eligibility board and is not eligible this year despite last years appeal. Regardless of that, PDT is loaded and deserving of their Qual spot. CSF has only trained for Quals since the track opened; hard lap-exchange, all practice, everyday. They will be an embarrassment in the race and highly unlikely that they will finish in the top ten.
while CSF might not win the race, they will probably still beat Beta, Sigma Chi, and DTD on race day. CUTTERS are still unbeatable. PDT 2nd as usual
CSF is just going to exchange every lap for the race. Should work. Their exchanges are sic nasty
Last year, men's quals results correlated with race results at .53...explains about 28% of variance in race results...clearly not meaningless.
Whats not to understand? Supposedly a team, "delts," protested Chris West being eligible. It looks like they won. Everyone wins here obviously.
Doesn't matter who protested that rule is as clear as if gets.
All the rules are pretty "clear", but that's why the protest procedures exist. The fact stands that he appealed and won last spring. Why IUSF would overturn their own decision is bogus.
WEst = ineligible
Young = P-R-O but eligible
CSF > both of them
unfortunately for them Beta > CSF
Young may have bent the rules, but nobody took him to appeals board so he was allowed to ride. West had won a protest allowing him to break the rules and someone bitched enough to get that decision reversed
btw ZBT made it in!
I dont think bitching is going to get IUSF to change a ruling that they made a year, ago. Who ever did it had to have followed the protest procedures and just filed a good convincing appeal for however West was breaking a rule. No need to be an ass, rules are rules no matter who its about.
Any truth to the rumors that a loose, dry track slowed down some of the teams that went in the afternoon? Seems that only CSF put down a noteworthy time after 12:00 pm, with Cutters, Sigma Chi, and maybe a few others posting slower than expected times later in the day...
The turns were slow, really slow but good teams should know how to ride in these conditions.
the greenskeepers were out there with the stimpmeter in the morning, had the straights rolling at a fast 13.5. Morning dew point temperature of 58F retained some moisture in the cinders for some additional traction in the turns which proved essential for most teams before noon. smooth pack on the inside line for most of the track besides residual whoops sections beginning of turn 1 and 3.
afternoon track prep: of course something needed to be done. i know! prep consisted of sprinkling a good inch of fresh cat litter in the turns, providing excellent odor control and formidable fishtailing. strong riders struggling to maintain control/speed even with conscious weight positioning and controlled pedal strokes, lucky to post 36 second laps.
Quals are done and all the contenders are in the race so next topic, ITT's. Predictions?
I'm sorry but if you go through the proper appeals procedure regardless of whether you're allowed to ride or not, you are, by definition, NOT breaking the rules. West, therefore, was not "breaking the rules".
Agreed, and no one is breaking the rules appealing That call. On to ITTs.
Dick, Depasse or Sharp?
Laser.
Green. fastest lap in quals
quals might be over, but when CSF or FiJi wrecks out cutters, they'll wish they qualed higher. forget ITTs, we all know some PDT will get 2nd and some cutter will win. same old same old
A cutter will win? Who? Depasse is good but I don't see him winning.
Tim Nixon
Sasha Land
1 Kath (Theta)
2 Caughlin (Teter)
3 Hutcheson (Teter)
4 Moeller (Wing It)
5 Doogs (DG)
Sleepers Wing Its rookie, Teter's two rookies, any other DG rider, and Dana.
As for the rookies, there is a strong chance they'll outperform returning riders on their own teams.
I agree with your top five for sure although maybe not in that order. No clue about rookies, I wasn't here for break.
at 2:53 Caughlin and Hutcheson aren't fast enough for four laps at a time, we saw it all break. Quals was a fluke and we will see who the real riders are come ITTs.
Cutters Top 3 Sweep. Every Delt wrecks out. Beta crashes trying to ride no hands.
Doogs and Sharp will win ITT's
-Hank (don't feel like signing in)
No wing it rider finishes in top 5. Tom cites IUSF fraud and brings forth iPhone video evidence
Men: Depasse, Laser, Harbison, Sharp, Stuart
Women: Chelminia, Caughlin, Ottenweller, Hutcheson, Doogs
No idea who wins, but those will be your top 5s
So based on spring break the Teter girls are slow? Any chance they rode workouts that week so perhaps they where tired? Until someone proves it wrong Teter is the team to beat. Best team over the past 10 years on the women's side by a mile.
Only saw 2 Teter girls pushing hard all break. The other 2 seemed to be hanging back a little bit, splits may have exposed that a little bit in quals, BUT WHO CARES! Teter is the team to beat until someone finally beats them at an event. Returning champs should always get the nod especially when you're able to replace a CVK with a strong caughlin and a very strong hutcheson.
As for my picks, i see it shaking out how 3:15 does.
Returning champs should be favored? What a joke.
Regarding wrecking the Cutters out, we'll be on the front by lap 2.
3:26 - the two returning champs are the favorites. No joke.
someone is getting defensive.... and it isn't ZBT
Not defensive. Stating the facts.
"Regarding wrecking the Cutters out, we'll be on the front by lap 2." -Fact?
Yup - go watch the 2004 and 2008 race starts and we started from 10th and 13th, respectively.
Curious to see who makes it into the hour of power. Let'see some heat sheets!
Please! Guarantee neither one of those scenarios will happen, CSF hasn't even earned the right to have a fan make that prediction. Let's start with staying on the lead lap for more than 20 laps before you have visions of "Tebowing with the Borg- Warner trophy"
Agreed! and worst coached zero race day plan!
Check the 2005 video!
+1 5:11pm
check out that video. if you're wrecked out in lap 1, then how will you be in front on lap two?
ITT heats here:
http://iusf.indiana.edu/little500/rider_info/ITTs%20Heat%20Sheet.pdf
Opinions on the hour of power?
Call it the 25min of power. Heats 56-60 are solid but not much interest elsewhere. Stuart and Hutch to win.
Hey Jordan,
How about posting the ITT heats in a spreadsheet and not a chopped up PDF?
Beta is already planning on bringing their own medical team for their inevitable numerous injuries
L5 is a joke. More than 50% of you idiots are now where to be found come real race time --- USCF. Get a life.
Plus or minus 4 Beta crashes this in the race?
What? 2:09 are you trying to say that Teter has no race day plan?
CSF will take the early lead and fade by lap 50. Delts will sit in and do nothing, but get dropped anyway when Dick is out of the race. CUTTERS-PDT showdown #2 - this time PDT will sprint on lap 201
10:20 - why? The point of Little 5 is to introduce new cyclists to the racing community (besides fundraising money), and to give amateurs a great experience. Ya, you are right, way more than 50% of riders don't race outside of IU, but what's it matter? Stop trying to be a show-off because you race and let those who don't want to race/can't afford it/don't have time be.
Quick analysis on the heat sheets based on the top 25 returning riders from last year's ITTs. Looks like BKB got seeded late for some reason.
Dan Kinn was 12th last year which puts him 8th returning rider and they have him buried in heat 77.
Also Mis is 24th returner and they have him buried at heat 75.
Any reason for this?
Another odd one is putting Patches with guys who went 2:36 and 2:39 last year, dangerous.
Power Hour!
Todd- probably just schedule conflicts with class.. etc
At 8:30 at night?
Anyone else notice that West is being allowed to ride ITTs? What gives? I thought he was ineligible.
and why was he riding on the track yesterday?
West is ineligible to ride in the Little 500 and Qualifications. He can still ride on the track and participate in the Spring Series.
- A concerned citizen
here's the leadout...
Sharp hands down fastest guy on the track!
Yea, Sharp will win the sprint this year.
if he doesn't get ruled ineligible first
Should he be ineligible? Isn't everyone on Phi Delt's a fifth year? I think Greg Bortz from AKAK is going to win it, with Sharp 2nd and Stuart 3rd.
For those of us who don't live in Bloomington anymore, when is the Pit selection coming out?
Some people have jobs Todd. Maybe you should go back to yours. spend more time analyzing taxes than ITT start times.
It doesn't take long to fill out a spreadsheet that already has prior year data in it.
for the guy who posted at 10:20 it's no longer the USCF it's USA Cycling
todd loves crunching numbers, why not do it for ITTs when taking a short break from work?
Anderson from Beta 1st, Sven from PDT 2nd, Half Gray Goat 3rd. Depasse 5th at best. Nixon 4th or 5th.
I crunched the numbers when I looked at the start times this AM.
Todd is 'crunching the numbers' a euphemism for something else you did this AM?? We all know how much you love Litte 500.
The Cutter secret has finally been discovered!
I'm sure I missed a couple guys due to team switches but here's a list of all the returners sorted by last year's ranking with heat number and time.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12006576/Returners.pdf
None! ever. They should be named wing it.
That's probably true. Lapping the field was likely a happy accident.
Lapping the field is never an accident.
unless you're on ATO and you sprint on a yellow to gain a 1/2 lap
Nixon shouldn't be eligible. someone protest
if any delts can read this, they will. of course, courtney bishop is like john calipari...so most of them probably can't count to 3
10:59 - they're delts so can't count to III.
8:50pm.. yeah, they lapped the field bc of a yellow flag.. right. Pretty soon it's going to be that ATO lapped the field bc the lap counters missed a lap. This folktale just keeps growing, it's funny. You think maybe it had anything to do with ATO having the fastest time trialer in L5 history? Nah, that's crazy talk.
yep! a 4-lap ITT is like the 40-lap set that hans did. genius! the yellow helped, but he would've done it anyway
Anyone see this article?
http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=86321
How bout this one... Look toward the end
http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/3076.html
The title of that article suggests that IUSF would go back on its own decision. That would never happen. A top notch organization like IUSF makes decisions and sticks to them. One only needs to look at the bigger gear issue and the alumni coaching ban to see that IUSF “stands by their man” as Tammy would say.
It was very clear that ATO made a huge chunk of time under yellow that day. Hans was the fastest time trialer as well. I think they could have lapped it anyway, but making over a 3rd of a lap or more under yellow is not really fair, although it was the responsibility of the losing teams to stay with the leader. It just never works out that way when the leader is riding too fast and you can't see him across the track.
He still did it and didn't get caught, but it would have been much harder if he didn't catch a big break. His team was riding well that day and I think he could have still done it later in the race if he only got a half lap on the first set. He seemed content to ride with the pack after lapping the field.
You could probably see it on video although sometimes they go to commercial and ruin video evidence.
11:10
I think the article is funny. Yes CVK is gone...Teter still won the pole and will place 4 in the top 20. Would have been better to just talk about the mens side.
Should have had Tom and his iPhone there for proof!!
Wing It puts 3 in the top 5...Bank on it
How about RJ Stuarts quote!! It sounds like he thinks he's going to win. It also sounds like his ego is pretty big! Too bad training on hills on the road doesn't translate to great power on the track. That little dude will be lucky to get top 5 or 10.
CUTTERS sweep the top 5. their 5th man will be faster than anyone else's first
Wing it will put 1 in the top 5, maybe 2 in the top 10. The rookie might be pretty darn good.
11:58 - his quote is pretty humorous considering his team is the one that protested Chris West.
Just curious what pro's RJ had been training with? Kid sounds like douche.
He's on another level riding with pros and he protests a rider who is seemingly beneath him? That's a sad insecure way of thinking. Any angle you can to win. That usually means bad karma and you'll never win.
they've already got bad karma with bishop. can't get much more than that.
Where are these Stuart quotes coming from? I didn't see anything on either of those pages pertaining to him.
http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=86323
The Stuart quotes are from this article.
http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=86323
The Stuart quotes are from this article.
Bishop bad karma means alway having a team in the top 5 I think there a 32 other team that couldn't make a claim for better finishes than Courtney and Ken. Numbers don't lie. Think they just need a win, I think it will be this year.
If your talking the past 10 years then I would absolutely agree.
2005 / 16th place is not in the top 5.
Todd,
You are good with numbers.
There is no doubt that the Delts have the D-Bag Jersey locked up for 2012.
yeah, but giving illegal scholarships and illegal recruiting kind of negate any placing...esp. if you try to ride pros/cat 1/2s.
If you have to go back to 2005 to find a sub 5th place finish, I would say that gets to the point. 2nd and 4th with a polesetter thrown in the previous 2 year before 2005, I would say they are doing ok.
Calipari rocks!
I never said they weren't doing ok. I just stated that your facts were wrong. Also, unless you count teams that didn't make the race, you should say there are 31 teams that don't have results that good.
One more thing, you failed to mention that he was banned from the race and his team wanted nothing to do with him. There is more than the numbers.
rj did not protest west. his poser teammates did. stuart is the real deal and wants to ride with the best.
Todd, would love to have a camera ready to see you bring that up to Courtny in turn 3 this year. We can only dream.
why so Courtney can get banned again for assault?
I'll take that action. $20 on Todd! sack up Todd! CB seems like the warm fuzzy approachable type, right???
Sadly I won't be at the race this year.
For those who haven't followed this blog long, I've been a Delt/TMT supporter. However, I'm off the bandwagon now after hearing that Delts protested Chris West. It's flat out weak, especially after the history there.
Who wants Todd's support anyway? Seems like a dick. Grown man vicariously living through a bunch of college students. Grow up and shut up.
He's a dick because he is smarter than you and makes valid comments and is a better athlete than you. I wish I was a dick.
Haha RJ's quote is great considering that his team brought forward and pushed the protest of getting another rider ineligible. He and the Delts must have been hanging out with Kiel from last year and taking notes on why he wasn't successful in his protest. Training hard and in top shape he might be. Not being scared of the competition? That he has to be. Hey, if you can't beat people, get them kicked out. One way for the cream to rise to the top I suppose....
Todd posting under anon ^
Nope - I always log in. 100%
hey 10:52. West couldn't even ride with Delts second best last nite so how is he one of the best? his qual time (measured using Tom's cell phone trick and comparing to scoreboard clock) was 2:26+. that wouldve put him in about 20th place.
West's official time was 2:25.8. Not bad for a guy that isn't training for Little 5 and would have put 4 PDT's in the top 20. I guess they'll have to settle with 3 in the top 15
I'd settle for PDT just shutting up.
we all know csf is the best team anyway. best itt time was 2:31 at 49th place. Laughable
I don't really understand all the DTD hate. Maybe this has been discussed earlier (some of us alums don't read the blog daily) but it clearly states in Bold letters under the rider's manual rider eligibility chapter, section H "If a student was on his/her team’s qualification list and/or final four race day list that student is considered to have participated in a year of riding."
That's the rule, plain and simple. He was on his team's qualification list, thus he used a year of eligibility. Far as I'm concerned they are just following the rules.
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