Beta Cycling 2012 Winter Training Trip - "The Journey" from Beta Cycling on Vimeo.
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This is a resource for everything biking in Bloomington IN. Everything and everybody is welcome- rides, results, blogs, opinion etc. Mail me content at sacconetom@gmail.com or if you want to often contribute, let me know.
207 comments:
1 – 200 of 207 Newer› Newest»Nice video Beta! That is pretty cool, would be great to see more teams do that. It gets the word out about L5, which is good for all teams & people involved. And yes, you are a contender and on our list of teams to watch. Don't listen to the haters on here....
Nice kits. A hint of Rafa Focus, cool video.
Uh, ......no, they are not. A pretender, every year! BETA is NOT a factor. Sorry.
that guy on the black felt with the bell volt is a hottie
as always matt green looks terrible on the bike. worst form ever
someone needs to get most of these guys bike fits. why isn't that graham kid eligible? he looks the best out of the bunch
entered college as a cat 2
I think there should be a rule that if you finished in the back half of last years race and were eating triple cinder burgers with extra mayo, you shouldn't be allowed to use the word "contender"
.....Sorry Beta.
Geraint you are correct mashing the big gear sprint isn't the same as turning 160+ rpm for the little 5 sprint
Yeah that was kinda a joke. In the winter, smashing that big-gear-coming-from-behind-the-car sprint is more fun than that 'going-nowhere' L5 spin sprint! Got to do it eventually though!
One of the lamest things I have ever seen. Maybe instead of blowing money on kits (as a lot of teams do) they could get bike fits and/or a coach who actually knew something about training cyclist. Quit wasting times with videos and actually train. It is like they are trying to convince themselves that they are training. It is a "hey look at us, we're training we promise." It reeks of desperation and is not even a good video. O lets drive by in a car and film. "O now I got it, lets sprint pathetically slowly and try to impress people." I am sure after this ride they drank some natty, ate some cheeseburgers and schemed on ugly sorostitutes. Quit trying to impress people and actually commit to what you are trying to do. Little 5 teams are laughable.
10:59 - yeah taking any fun out of cycling is the only way to be a good cyclist. Based on your own post, you should quit wasting time on here and get a life coach or anyone who knows anything so you can commit to whatever it is you do. You're laughable.
Go Beta!
you're equally laughable
-the other anon
10:30 - There is a huge difference between jabbing someone in jest, with purpose or constructively and just being a plan ass hole. These comments about Beta are absurd. So what they made a video (shitty music) and so what they have nice kits (they're freaking sweet kits). They're getting out there and trying to win the race. Good for them!
Same thing goes for the constant bashing of Delts, Teter and whomever else is the flavor of the month.
the beauty of first amendment rights is that you can legally say all the dumb shit you want. ain't life grand?
LOL true but it doesn't relieve you of ass hole status.
how many times a day does Todd check bvn??
some people work hard for that status
predictions for rookie MNO? crashes? 1 collarbone, 2 dislocated shoulders, lots of cinder surfing and 1 cutter winner? or perhaps a beta winner?
Cutters never do miss n out who are you kidding.
It's tax season, I'm in the office 7 days a week so BVN is up on my second monitor all day.
bvn is a great quick "study break" most people probably check it at least 100 times a day. so really the 923487239074 hits a day are only from 5 people repeatedly checking it...
how did alex bishop and eric young win MNO if cutters don't do it?
Rookie miss n out? Cutters haven't participated the last 4-5 years at least
ROOKIE* miss'n'out you dumb fuck. cant you read?
12:38pm never said anything about any rookie mno
If you read the thread the topic was about rookie miss n out. Cutters always do decent in regular miss n out. 2 guys in final last year and I'm guessing 2 again this year
Again, wasting time on posts about a race that no one gives a shit about outside of Bloomington. Idiots.
these guys are riding bikes that are too small, seat heights that are too low and handlebars that are way too high.
a bunch on nuebes.
no contendor.
the sptrints looked like slow motion.
well since todd's not in bloomington, clearly someone outside of bloomington gives a shit. be jealous you're not a cutter with 80 60 rings
so now that we're approaching L5 season, when is anon posting going to be removed?
gp should remove anon 4:11pm
80 60 rings? nice one...
take your pick, they have somewhere between that many probably
anon posting is dumb anyway.
-anon
"OMG!!! THERE ARE LIKE 10 MORE COMMENTS ON THIS THREAD NOW!!! I CAN'T WAIT TO READ THEM!!"
so how bout them delts?
I heard Delts look PRO this year
sooo PROOO
Stuart is tough as nails but the other delts are mediocre at best. They ride stupidly: watch last years race and look how sigma chi and cutters punked them at their own game and made that rookie sojka pull. He gave both lusk and fish I think 2-3 laps and then rj did the same thing with lusk as he sat back there eating laps at a ridiculous slow pace. Especially knowing the best sprinter in the game was resting in the pits. Delts good luck but you can't play the game like that and expect to win. I'm not saying, but Im just saying
Delts - 2011 4th, 2010 4th, 2009 2nd.
Unless you ride for the Cutters, Delts kicked your ass.
They pull and you guys bash them, they sit in and you bash them.
Unless you rode for Phi Delts too
Phi delts was 15th in 2009 when delts was 2nd (ass-kicking).
In 2010 toss up.
In 2011, Phi Delt exchanged under white....
2010 phi delts (2nd) > delts
2011 phi delts (2nd) > delts
2009...too bad for them, still got 2/3!
Exchanging under white when you're with the leader < the rest of the field. 2011 Phi Delts surpassed the 1990 Cutters and Acacia for worst end of race strategy on the new track. Relegated.
Delts are gamers for sure they also have a hell of a race with what little talent they have. Phi delts are always loaded and have enough for three teams but always find a way to fuck it up. Delts > phi delts since post-TMT era hands down
Is there any doubt that Steve Sharp and RJ Stuart will be the best guys on the track this year? RJ was maybe the true star of the 2011 race and (as has been documented a few times) the Cutters wouldn't have won without him.
Would be fun to see Stuart, Sharp and Depasse arrive on the last lap together. Cutters ain't winning that one..... unless PDT and Delts have exchanged in the previous two laps (as has happened in recent years!).
drummy > toad, maybe not at counting since 199 is 1 away from 200 and todd is an accountant
In Drummy's defense, I thought we had another lap to go, but when that white flag is out, you race.
Walsh for the W. PDT and delts studs have too many laps to win a sprint against the true btown cutter. Tomeke!!!
This year is so much fun! 1997 is on my mind.
I think Rex Rafferty is a sleeper watch out.
"In Drummy's defense, I thought we had another lap to go, but when that white flag is out, you race."
Which is why you are and Drummy should be behind the fence.
maybe he can't turn left like derek zoolander
"2011 Phi Delts surpassed the 1990 Cutters and Acacia for worst end of race strategy on the new track."
??????
Tom
Tom disagrees. Wasn't that guy an eventual Olympian? Maybe not. Anyway those guys didnt take the initiative and lost to an aggresive sleeper team. It happens.
of course if it involve AKAK during the Tom years he has to jump in
Yeah, I questioned Todd's statement. After all I was there, and I know what went on. Making a remark that spans 1982 to 2011 begs a more in depth explanation or at least a list of the top 10 blunders from 1982 - 2011 as Todd sees them.
Tom
Tom -
You guys and the Cutters were the clear cut favorites and SNU snuck off the front and eliminated a sprint, no?
What other race was there a gaffe like that until 2011? Serious question.
Top ten blunders might be a fun list. We might have to limit to 5 because most teams wreck before they have a chance to screw up a finish.
top 10 blunder for all teams except CUTTERS would be not recruiting KING ERIC in fall 2007
Yeah, Fowler, Kirkham and I went on several recruiting trips to see Eric run low hurdles for his high school. So graceful, we knew he would be able to exchange a Little 5 bike.
wouldn't put it past you actually
Eric won the race 3 times because he could exchange?
"You guys and the Cutters were the clear cut favorites and SNU snuck off the front and eliminated a sprint, no?"
Are you asking me? Your previous statement was pretty declarative spanning 3 decades. I forget were you there? Or are you basing this on looking at the video. I’m not saying that Acacia didn’t screw up, but you need to look at the tape again and take a closer look.
I can think of several more significant blunders then this especially if being a clear cut favorite and loosing the race is your primary criteria. And 30 years is a very long time.
Tom - I actually was there, in the in field but I'm basing it more on race tape and discussions with Demetri and other guys.
Your input on the blunders is exactly what I'm interested in. Here are the ones that stand out in my mind:
1) 2011 Phi Delt
2) 1990 akak cutters
3) 1987 Jay's line under white
4) 2004 Simeon forcing a wheel and wrecking under white
Other ideas?
Top 10 blunders.
1. 2011 Phi Delt
2. 1987 Cutters (sprinting along the fence is a long line!
3. 1993 Cutters dropped chain and failed finish.
4. 1990 letting Sigma Nu get away.- Cutters and Acacia.. Tom care to explain?
5. 2004 TMT crashing out with a lap or 2 to go to go with the best sprinter
6. 1998 The field allowing Dodds house to get off the front before the sprint watching themselves only.
7. 1984, allowing Cutters to win the race from behind on the inside of the track
8. The Field 2009 allowing Cutters to chase back on after certain defeat.
9. 2001, the field judges allowing Teter men to almost be caught under yellow after they were up by almost a half lap or more causing them to lose the race.
10. Breaking away allowing that little squirt and the skinny tall guy get anywhere near the race and almost losing it for Cutters.
10.
I ran out of ideas. Some of these may not deserve to belong here and Im sure there are some bigger blunders in other years.
Cutters apparently have made a lot of them, but I guess that's good because that means they are always there near the end. The other teams make way more blunders before the finish ever occurs.
Todd, how old were you in 1990, weren't you like in grade school?
My dad's company was Phi Delt's title sponsor during late 80s an early 90s so I started going to the race in 88 - 8th grade.
84 was pretty bad.
so why wasn't todd a phi delt then?
Lots of reasons really, but mainly my next door neighbor was a Cutter and he asked me to go ride one day.
Anon 1:08 and 5:21 both need to get a hobby. Your complete inability to understand what Little 5 is about is truely saddening.
Anon 5:34pm. Hold your wad there mister. Giving Todd a jab hardly justifies that outlandish statement. Don't get your panties in a bunch. I'm 100% clear what Little 5 is all about. The question is do you?
And if your answer has anything to do with a competitive bike race your sadly mistaken.
Todd, your thoughts?
I thought it was about raising money for scholarships for working students.
sounds like someone's been reading the IUSF webpage!
Let's get back to the question at hand: if Todd were an animal what would he be and why?
honeybadger
clown fish
Tom, care to explain the closer look? Im dying to know what really happened. I thought They were watching eachother and by the time they started chasing it was too late.
oh the honeybadger
I really am curious. My understanding is the same as 9:30.
2:1 odds the Cutters get 5 penalties, 3 wrecks, break both bikes and still win (if all else fails, all teams ahead of them will just get impeding penalties)
7:1 odds it comes down to a sprint between Theta Chi, Beta, AKAK, and FIJI
AKAK takes the win with BOrtz
20:1 odds the rest of the field somehow manages to keep up
FRAT
It was a case of tunnel vision; both riders were focused on each other. Sigma Nu's previous finishes were 10th, 13th, 13th, 16th, 17th and 14th. Their last exchange started in the pit before theirs and actually took place 5 pits later. No penalty. You can say Sigma Nu pulled the ultimate strategic ploy, or that they got lucky. It depends on your perspective, but in the end it is just your perspective. You move on.
I have a problem with people making declarative statements about the worst blunders in 30 years, especially those who have never coached a race (or even attended some of them in that 30 year period). Until you do, you have no tested insight for what goes on prior, during and after the race, it is just speculation. Observation doesn't translate into responsibility. Every dedicated coach I know is haunted by their decisions when they don't win. Some of them buckle under their weight, some realize that experience is an unsympathetic teacher, she give the test BEFORE the lesson; they come back again the next year, hopefully a bit wiser.
Success has 1000 fathers and failure is an orphan. And the primary measure is if the person who makes the bad decision learns from it or just repeats it year after year. It is that simple.
Tom
Tom -
You never answered the question.
I'm referring to the original question. Thanks for confirming the thoughts on 90.
So why do ghost exchanges still exist? Haven't you learned by now Thomas?
With all due respect Tom, you seem to agree with Todd's observation minus the fact that you thought there should have been a penalty.
In my opinion, a coach cannot know what is going through a riders head or body at the time of failure. You must ask the rider, were they hurting, did they not see them, or was it a case of measuring eachother? It is apparent that you knew they were off the front, because you watched them pass their pit on the exchange. So, the infraction should not have caused any confusion correct? There are a million things field judges do not see. So it seems that Todd's firsthand conversation with the Cutter guy is about as good as you can get, not to mention he has seen the video.
Criticism is part of the game. Their low placement the year before is called playing a trap game, something you should always avoid with unknown teams on the lead lap.
I am not sure why you took offense to Todd, knowing he could not possibly be at some of those races over a 30 year period. I'd say 15+ years of being involved is pretty good experience even if he was not a coach like you. One can also say after 30 years maybe the game has passed you by? Both are invalid statement as it depends on the individual.
Does anyone know the winning % of Tom and other top coaches. Fowler is obviously the winningest coach ever going 5 for 5. + 2 victories racing.
To follow that very well thought out post, listing the all-time blunders list can come from all sorts of inputs, firsthand knowledge as a rider, as a coach, as a reprorter, watching a race tape, interviewing a participant, watching from the stands, etc. If you fail to or simply dismiss any one perspectitive, you're likely missing something yourself.
The same goes for learning how to win this race.
fowler = L5coach deity
Declarative statements about L5 coaching deities are irresponsible.
As much as this pains me, I would have to put the Nowakowsi/Bishop coaching team as the clear #2 over the past 10 year, spanning TMT and DTD. 9,2,4,16,5,2,2,4,4,4 skewed with a 16th finish but I say they are alway around 3 and alway on the lead lap. Who else is in the discussion.
How did the TMT to Delts switch happen????
for girls, Woj-Teter was 1,12,2,2, 7,1,1 + 2 wins and 2nd as a rider. Good thing because he definitely can't dance.
Yeah I've seen him dancing it's pretty sporadic and all over the place. Fun to watch though and always fun to watch teter girls mix it up. They've got to be more the favorites for this year than the cutters in '10 or '11
How many people have wins as riders and coaches in their respective race (i.e. men in men and women in women)?
Off the top of my head I can think of only a few....
Fowler
Kirkham
Rhamy
Woj*
I put an * by Woj because he hasn't won as a coach in the men's race. I'd do the same if it was a female champion coaching/winning the men's race
I think Giles and Goot have to be on there as well.
I think Joel McKay (96/01), no?
Giles was in the pit for Cutters and won I am pretty sure. way back when.
Fred Rose * won mens race and was Roadrunners as Coach.
I don't think McKay was in the pit. Was Goot in the pit for a cutter win?
100.......
Ok, continue on.
Tom - 45 races, 6 rings, 5 pole teams (including two that got the pole with only 3 riders), 4 times out of the top ten.
Anon 5:41pm - read the question. Tom wasn't a rider
Susan Stapleton - Roadrunners
The biggest blunder at the new track, the field letting the Cutters win in 2009.
Tom
2011 was worse.
I think Goot was in the pit in 84.
Fred - I can't believe I left you off especially since my sister was on that team.
what about dave stoller? he coached that team and won it! team #34
what about Jay Polsgrove? won in the 80s and wrote the training for the cutters for years
45 races and 6 rings that's a 13% winning %. not bad. I think 4 times out of the top 10 is pretty good too considering bad wrecks, big fields, and off years.
Fowler 100% 5 wins + 2 rings riding
Woj- 43% 3 wins + 2 rings riding
Quals is not a big deal. You win quals and lose the race you feel terrible.
What about the guy from Kappa? he has a lot of wins and a lot of races.
How many womens teams even had real coaches in the late 80's and 90's? It seems like there are more notable people around these days.
Actually watch the race tape from 2009. Tell me the average lap speed of the race and then tell me the average lap speed of "the field letting the Cutters to chase back". It isn't Myth Busters complicated and I'd appreciate all the trolls giving up the ghost that teams let the Cutters get back anything.
Hint 1) The average lap that year was 40 plus seconds
Hint 2) The average lap from the other teams letting the Cutters catch up was around 36
windy windy windy that year
cutters are just that much better than everyone else
between neebler, torodow, and sovinsky, nobody would pull and slowed the entire race down. fiji too. cutters got lucky
it probably didn't help that the pack was like 25 teams, so it spanned an entire straightaway
Tom, what a cop out! You not having a clue in 1990 was CLEARY the biggest blunder of the new track era.
not only a cop-out but changed the subject too. learning from your "experiences"? who coaches the same way with the same strategy every year no matter what?
letting hans get away was a blunder too in 06
on the flip side, hans pushing the cutter guy out in 04 was also a big blunder and cost him the race
not letting young ride in 2008 was a blunder -especially after he got 3rd in itts that year. he could have been the first rider with 4 rings
@ 737 Clearly the answer to that one is Bishop. He hasn't changed since he started way predictable, why he NEVER wins! Ha! Amen.
why did the cutters bench king eric that year?
he was still pledging then
Itt's don't mean a damn thing. Many teams train through them and how often do you see teams sending riders out on a four lap burn? Rarely.
Dumbass, Rarely, .....cause that would only happen if your in contention to win, and thus on the lead lap. People are so stupid.
the point is he was clearly a capable rider and still had the best sprint out of all of them except maybe sasha, but didn't ride for some reason
oh yeah, and how did the cutters win that year? solo off the front i.e. maybe 4-lap burns were in fact important
itts still are still meaningless
so is winning little 5 outside of bloomington
They had Hamiltin Sasha and a returning champ rider and Clayton was strong for longer sets and had more track experience than Young and Sasha could sprint.
Beta - look at the stir you guys caused.
just being a returning champ should not guarantee you a race spot - look at the other 3 guys that rode with hans. would the cutters have ridden ANY of those 3? probably not...
ziemba did his share, but the other two are no-namers
yeah, those other two guys riding a combined total of about 10 laps really earned them those rings
Paul S. Was a good varsity swimmer that came in th year before and had more experience andbincredible endurance. He was not even considered and he was a senior. He rode long sets and was fast. It was between Clayton and Young and Clayton worked his ass off for 2 years. The plan worked. They would have won with Young too. He was just a bit Young.
Is Woj the only person to lap the field as a rider and a coach?
Kirkham was his coach and his team lapped the field in 1992, although I think he rode very little.
didn't kyle mclurg lap the field?
If Goot was in the pit in 84, than he did.
*then
Scratch that. 92, 2000 and 06 are only relevant years.
and all the years at the old track... lapping the field was almost an annual occurrence then!
are there any riders/coaches who have won the race as riders (M or W) and then won BOTH the M & W races as coaches?
shwaygler?
swoegler did the Hilly hundred a couple times.
he never rode in the race
how is FIJI looking this year? surely todd cornelius has them training hard. contenders?
Fiji was the best team in history besides D-Chi back in 1995 and they have been competitive ever since and have come away with no wins in the last 17 years. They are due in the next 3-4 years for sure.
I wouldn't count on Fiji for at least the next two years. Ellis quit and he was their only living hope. He was on the down swing too last year. This year I'd expect a top ten at best from the third street purples
Geraint should see of Hoosier Disposal wants to buy a banner add because this blog has become totally DUMPSTER!
top 5 for sure, that will kid last year should have been ROY over both beta cinder surfer and rob pole vaulter
Everything is politics in little five
those awards are just popularity contests anyway. otherwise clayton would be HOF (3 rings...and not HOF? really?)
What do you say about Lusk then? He has three rings is he hall of fame criteria then also? To me the answer is no but I agree that Clayton should be in and about it being a ridiculous popularity contest. Going back to Lusk I don't think he was quite as influential to his team as Clayton or in the near future Eric was to the team. Overshadowed by Eric possibly but he was doing something right to ride on 3 winning teams and had a good enough senior year to deserve all star rider and was snubbed. Flawed system of voting but what else could work
young will get voted in this year if he's not already on the ballot. who knows if/when clayton will ever get in...probably will have to wait a few years until nobody riding knows him anymore. lusk might get in just by virtue of being an awesome guy and having 3 rings
get that 151 yo. post-race shots!
who else in recent years has been HOF? just luekens and hans? did alex bishop or dave caughlin or any other cutters from the 5-year streak get in?
IUSF webpage lists Vince Hoeser (Cutters), Peter Noverr (Acacia) and Hans Arnesen (Alpha Tau Omega) as the latest inductees, all in 2006
what years did Hoeser and Noverr ride? Tommeke?
Noverr 91 and Hoeser was 86.
Hoeser was fast but didnt race his senior year and was he on a dorm his freshman year? What did he actually do besides team pursuit?
enough to get in the HOF apparently
how does HOF work? do you have to be voted in by current members? when will young get in? he's got to be a shoe-in
guys who are not HOF who deserve it? feldman? sasha? rhamy?
Not Rhamy. He was good not great. HOF is usually for a guy that was dominant against his team and the field for 4 years. Clayton was really good but was never the best guy on his team. People need to be able to see Clayton cross the finish line 1st in order to pick him. Thats the problem when your teammate is a superstar. He doesnt fit the mold of HOF's normal criteria. But he did hall of fame worthy things 3 years in a row on raceday. More tha Noever did.
Anon1237 you're just plain ignorant if you think Clayton shouldn't get in. Yes he was severely overshadowed by young but if ou know anything about the race you can clearly see that Clayton was a driving force as to why we won if not more so than Eric especially in 2009. Rode ~ 100 laps and not to mention completely wrote the training and taught a team full of rookies how to actually ride a bike. Turned around in 2010 and did it again and caused a breakaway that would have eventually led to lapping the field if it werent for the weather delay most likely and thats being generous to the field. Also, say what you want but I'd say patches and I turned out alright and that has a lot to do with the upbringing from Clayton. HOF in my book
Clayton and Eric should both be shoe ins.
Hank-anon 12:37 said "he did hall of fame worthy things 3 years in a row on raceday"
where did you get that this person doesn't think clayton should get it? he/she was just making the point that clayton was overshadowed by young and wasn't the most "visible" hero of the team, which i think most people would agree with. HOF worthy for sure
Yep. I was saying he deserves to be in, but was not selected right away because Young took a good chunk of the spotlight by finishing the race each time and he also never won a series event because 4 laps or miss n out was not his specialty. Long hard sets is what he was best at.
Hank needs thicker reading glasses.
either way, he was definitely one of the best L5 riders in the last decade and led the team to 3 wins
Interesting dynamic in the last few posts. I know it's a small sample size and those posts may be some Cutters in disguise (though we all know they never post Anon) but two years ago Clayton never got any positive comments. I'd like to think as the memory of some of his personality traits fades, the sporting memories remain and those undeniable mean a place in the HoF. However it does still need people who watched it to vote him in as on paper his series events results are not especially HoF-worthy.
He was on the ballot a couple of years ago but Pam kept the result secret (from me at least). I guess he didn't get in at that vote? Is there a mechanism for standing for a second time...a write-in perhaps?
i believe that riders can vote in a rider with a write-in without him/her being on the ballot with a 2/3 majority whereas if he/she is on the ballot only 1/2 of the riders need to vote him/her in.
clayton could be an asshole, but nobody could argue with his riding. series events or not, he was dominant on race-day and won 3 races. do you really need any other qualifications? who cares if nobody liked him while he rode? none of those guys are still riding (or they shouldn't be unless they are taking 5th years cough cough)
2 cutters (young and feldman) in HOF this year. chris west should get in too when they win this year
GP - you may be right about anon Cutter posters, but then again, not everyone hates the Cutters.
Little 500 Hall of Fame
The Little 500 Riders Hall of Fame is the most prestigious award given to a Little 500 rider. Each new inductee must be a graduating senior with at least three years of race experience. As the plaque reads, other criteria are as follows:
Given to senior Little 500 riders outstanding in both ability and attitude; those who excel on the track and exemplify excellence in the Little 500; those who represent the Spirit of the Little 500 and a desire to help others.
Potential Hall of Fame inductees are nominated by a combination committee made up of Riders Council, Steering Committee, and IUSF staff. A committee of current Hall of Fame members then meets after the race to decide who should be inducted. Their decisions then must be ratified by 50% of that year’s Little 500 teams.
cutters don't hate cutters
so it's not up to Bailey to put clayton on the ballot
When I replied to the anonymous poster it was a generalization to a lot of people not just him/her. I assure you I completely understood the post and don't need reading glasses. Many involved in the process need to take off their blinders and see that Clayton and Eric alike should be a unanimous decision for HOF. Series events aside because yes they do play a role for some voters but when Clayton has the task of teaching essentially 3 rookies how to win the race (2009) he doesn't have time to cater his training to compete well in itt's etc. he was more involved in getting us ready to race and race to where we would win. Which we did. 5 in a row is just stupid no matter who's on the team and all 5 of them included Clayton as a vital portion. Eric needs no explanation because he is and will be for a very long time the best little five rider in the history of the event. Sure I'm bias for Clayton but my god people put your ego's aside and admit that when Clayton was out there good things were happening and others didn't try to attack him; out of fear of failure or what I don't know but it doesn't matter. He sacrificed and crafted the best team(s) this race has ever seen, period.
bold statement. some of the early guys (blase, van guyse, dayton, stetina, brissman, to name a few) would probably blow them you of the water
If Eric isn't the best all time, he's on the short list.
he definitely is on the short list. just not necessarily the top of the list. but you can't really compare back then to now...different race nowadays
young is definitely one of the most talented riders to come through IU, including all those guys anon 6:33 named off. he owned the track (2x ITTs, 1x MNO, 3 rings, plus everyone was terrified of him) and in his first year as a pro racked up some NRC wins and a P-R-O national championship. looks like he's going places in the cycling world for sure
Anonymous posters are dead to me. You can't compare Eric to the older riders that rode on the old track and against less than spectacular competition for the most part. Too many different variables. But it's safe to assume the overall talent level spread across all teams is superior now and seeing what teams are doing in response to training more regularly. Which comes back to the HOF conversation making it even more appropriate for Clayton and Eric to be shoe ins as individuals and the cutters teams from 07-present
so every cutter from 2007-present should be HOF? that's a long list...
so that list should include:
alex bishop
david caughlin
sasha land
paul sigfusson
clayton feldman
erik hamilton
eric young
michael schroeder
kevin depasse
zachary lusk
samuel harbison
did i miss any? 11 HOF in 1 year!
My God! STOP! EY, best ever??? Stupid Conversation. If not for getting major help last year he was dead in the water along with cutters.
Good, absolutely. Leave it at that on the Little 5 side.
On to 2012 bitches!
"If not for getting major help last year he was dead in the water along with cutters."
What help? Stupid racing by other teams?
yeah, anon 10:43 is making it a stupid conversation. cutters were never dead in the water because they knew they had the best rider on the track and he was capable of single-handedly bringing them back (although he didn't wind up having to)
BKB and PDT blew it after taking a lap
'What help?'
C'mon Todd, be honest the Cutters wouldn't have come back without the DTDs. However Delts were racing for themselves so there's no shame in that.
1.11am By his own admission, Eric wasn't on a good day and wasn't gonna take a lap back on his own. It was a two-team effort.
Geraint - that's bike racing. That's the same bull shit kind of comment that people made about Hans lapping the field. "He got help because he was leap frogging from one shattered team to the next."
Eric stayed out there for 25 lap set wasting himself and yes he didn't catch, but what he did do was also waste the entire teams chasing him. Then when Sam and Hank went, you could just see those teams go fuck it. In basketball it's kind of like the best player getting double an triple teamed, all of a sudden guys are open.
This is another spot where people undervalue Clayton and how much he knows about this race and this team. Even though he was behind the fence last year, he was the one really "saw" this and convinced the pit to attack rather than rest until Eric felt better.
I don't thnk lusk means individually they should all get in if you had thicker reading glasses. He said Clayton and Eric for individual efforts and the cutters dynasty as a whole.
Out of Erics 3 years, last year was his slowest and he got caught from behind to get lapped so he lost over a quarter lap. Hank got a gap with Delts and they worked together with Eric and others to climb back in. Phi Delts made the right move 1-2 laps to late because Eric was tired. He probably would have still won because hes the best sprinter that Little 5 has ever seen. You almost have to classify sprinters and distance riders into different categories. Distance riders only get credit if they completely dominate the race and are on the bike last. Hof credit at least. Clayton should be in but I think the lack of series events maybe hurt him.
What about Stuart and Bortz for HOF? I believe they both meet the criteria and have done great things to help their teams over the years... Thoughts all?
they haven't won the race genius
speaking of HOF, vankooten should be a shoe-in for the women
You don't have to win to get in. Naas never won.
Saying Eric got caught from behind is true but not a real representation of what happened.
neither did Bri Kovac. although vankooten could probably ride cirlces around her on the L5 track. would have given jenn wangerin a run for her money
cutters got caught with their pants off when their rookie wrecked. pretty clear. other teams capitalized. pretty clear. but they couldn't finish it and the cutters showed how strength and experience can pull you back from disaster. boom 5 in a row
HOF = real award; All-Star/ROY = popularity contest
cutters wouldn't have had a chance without delts and sigma chi helping them catch back up
It's a race for Christ sake if a strong rider is right there why would you not use that resource? Cutters showed their dominance and other teams should be ashamed that they didn't work together to stay away. Grey goat's Kiel was waiting for phi delts to help and they still couldn't hold it together. I wouldn't say cutters would be finished without the help of other teams. Cutters pulled the majority of those laps and they won the white jersey for a reason.
Kiel sucks. they were 100 laps down anyway, and kiel was "pulling" slower than both PDT and BKB! they should've gotten him off the front ASAP
199 - here's the lead out for someone to take the checkered flag.
Cutters win again
-Hank
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